Ginger Galloway
Pinstripe Marketing
Why B2B Brands Are Screwing Up Their Marketing Strategy | Ginger Galloway
Click to play episode
"it's not about marketing. It's not about seeing an ad and saying, you know what? I'm gonna call that engineer. It's still gonna be about word of mouth and relationship building and referral sources. And so the marketing just becomes kind of a legitimizer to that.
Key Takeaways
- ◆Ginger decided in seventh grade she'd run an ad agency, then spent 26 years building toward that goal through newspapers, in-house roles at a top law firm, and Fortune 100 corporate marketing before launching Pinstripe.
- ◆She targets professional services (law, engineering, architecture, finance) because those firms rarely have marketers who understand their risk-averse culture and consensus-driven decision-making.
- ◆Most professional service firms follow rather than lead because their training (lawyers citing case law, engineers referencing specs) conditions them to look at what others did first, not to try something new.
- ◆Ginger never charges for discovery because she wants to know if she's the right fit and would rather refer a prospect to someone else than take a client she can't truly help.
- ◆Marketing for professional services is legitimization, not lead generation, since most revenue still comes from word of mouth and referrals, not ads or digital campaigns.
- ◆She tells clients to measure inquiries, event attendance, callbacks, and website engagement first rather than jumping straight to ROI on the P&L, building confidence in marketing before they see dollars.
- ◆When professional service firms hand AI to interns who upload proprietary research to ChatGPT, the data becomes public and the output isn't copyrightable, so she brings in IT to build guardrails before anyone uses it.
Full transcript
Show
Chad
Welcome to Process Over Pressure. I'm your host, Chad Paris. Today, my guest has spent more than 26 years doing something market most marketers run away from. She goes after the nerves, the analysts, the skeptics, the smartest people in the room who don't believe a word that you say until you actually show them proof. That's her clientele, and she absolutely loves it. Ginger Galloway is the founder and president of Pinstripe Marketing out of St. Petersburg, Florida. And the founder of the Tandem Factory, her fractional CMO practice, she left corporate America to build her own thing, and she spent the better part of three decades helping B2B and professional service companies, law firms, tech companies, and yep, the hard cases. Figure out who they are, who they're talking to, and how. What I love about Ginger is she doesn't sell magic. She sell she's the one that's telling the clients marketing is a long play. That it's more than art than science. And that you can't just write a check and all of a sudden the switches flip and you're gonna be a millionaire overnight. That's a process over pressure conversation, if I've ever heard one. Ginger, welcome to the show.
Ginger Galloway
Hi Chad, good to see you.
Chad
Glad to have you. I was really looking forward to to getting a chance to have you on the show and and you know, it's always fun to to get the chance to talk to people who's been in corporate America, as have I, and getting a chance to get out of corporate America as fast as we can.
Ginger Galloway
The lessons learned are incomparable though.
So
Yeah, absolutely. So so let's let's start here. Look, you you you left corporate America. You you you walked away from it and said, you know what, I'm doing something else. And you built Pinstripe. And it it's been it's been several years ago that you did that. Wha what was that moment like? Take me back. What was it like?
Ginger Galloway
It honestly it was the culmination of kind of almost a lifelong dream. I decided that I was gonna have an ad agency when I was in the seventh grade. And so I mean, speaking of nerds, but I was I was on a mission from that point. So every, you know, the classes that I took, the organizations that I joined, everything was kind of the the building blocks to be able to get to that moment. And I had spent time
Chad
wow.
Ginger Galloway
at the the largest newspaper in Florida selling ads. I went to in-house at a l at one of the largest law firms in the world to do marketing. And then I got recruited to a Fortune 100 company to build an in-house marketing department or ad agency within a marketing department. So it really was the perfect time to be able to take all of that experience and say, okay, now is the time to go do it. And You know, originally Pinstripe was gonna be focused on just the legal market, because when I was in house at the law firm, I realized that there were no agencies that understood how to work with organizations like ours. but then once I was out on my own, I was like, ugh all day, every day, every client, maybe I should diversify a little bit and switched it up to B2B and other professional services organizations because they're you know, they're they're
Chad
Yeah.
Ginger Galloway
the organized very similarly and and they operate the same way and very rarely are they early adopters.
Chad
Yeah. That's that's that's so true. And I so so I have to ask you this question before we go further. I'm sorry, I'm I'm I'm kind of a might get off into a tangent. Pinstripe, are you a Yankees fan?
Ginger Galloway
get that question all the time. No, I'm a Rays fan.
Chad
Okay, just wanna make sure because I mean I know that the y the Yankees second home is is is down there, so you know, yeah y
Ginger Galloway
Yes. Yeah. Well there's a a bowl game, a college football bowl game that's played in Yankee Stadium called the Pinstripe Bowl. And so I've had a lot of people be like, is it did you sponsor that? It's like why, yes, of course. But the the Pinstripe is really about the Pinstripe suit. It's that professional services kind of a a look. Yeah. I'm all about a theme.
Chad
Absolutely idea. Absolutely idea.
Chad
That's good. That's cool. That's really cool. So so you you're are you originally from Saint Petersburg? Is that where you're born and raised? Nice. So I'm sure I don't know if you've lived ever anywhere else other than than Tampa that area but
Ginger Galloway
Born and raised. Yeah.
Ginger Galloway
School in Tallahassee. I went to Florida State. I interned at Disney in Orlando for a summer and came right back home. Like this is this is home for me.
Chad
Okay. Well it's a beautiful place to call home, that's for sure. So so you know, when you when you were in that corporate America, think I think I I you know I I've been there as well, so I I get it. When when you've got that opportunity to get out, now you're now you're kind of on your own and you're you're you're kind of your own company. do you look do you ever look back on some of that corporate America and realize, man, if I if I knew what I knew now, we would do things totally different.
Ginger Galloway
Yeah, it's just
Ginger Galloway
Yeah, for sure. Yeah, I think, you know, it's funny in in corporate organizations, especially when you start fresh out of school and you're very young, in those organizations, people see you at the place that you came in. and in some cases you can kind of make your way through the the ladder a little bit, but I'm I'm such a loyal person and I really get comfortable and I I've loved every job I've had that I didn't move around probably as much as I should have. and I didn't build my confidence as quickly as I could have. And so that those are some things that I would have changed. But I think, you know, I'm also ADHD, and so you know, collecting all that information and kind of storing it in there for later worked in my favor. And so, you know, in-house in those organizations, I was able to learn from you know, the finance department and you know the HR department for organizational leadership and so I was able to kind of glean all these things from some of the best people in those positions to kind of instill that and implement that in my own company. And so when I first left, it's like I went really overboard. Like I was you know creating reports from me to me from my spare bedroom. And so it it got a little ridiculous. But yeah, I think
Chad
Yeah. Yeah.
Ginger Galloway
You know, I I'm I'm very purposeful in the way that I approach things and so you know, for good or for bad, that's kind of how it turned out for me.
Chad
So you would are you would you consider yourself a lifeline a lifelong learner? Yeah.
Ginger Galloway
For sure. And and that's you know, anytime I get asked, you know, I work a lot with students, you know, in marketing programs and things at universities and colleges and you know, they always ask, you know, what's what's one piece of advice? And it's always, always, always to remain a student.
Chad
Yeah. I th I I think that's actually really great advice. And I think even even if you're in corporate America today and you're a business owner, you know, very often I think it happens and I don't think they realize it happened. I I don't I don't think they're trying to do that. But I think when you become, you know, w when you start out and you start going up in levels, like you, you know, become a director, a manager, a vice president, a senior vice president, a C to suite, oftentimes you get in this mindset where, you know, you've been doing it for a really long time. And there's a tendency, and this is not for everybody, but there's things there's a tendency where you stop thinking you have to learn. Or maybe you it or or maybe you you you know you're it just happens. And you and you naturally become more of a of I want to tell people how to do things and you're not necessarily learning. And I think that's I think that's a scary place to be in.
Ginger Galloway
And I think that we've all worked for those managers, right? That you know, you keep learning and you're finding new ways to do things, they're not interested anymore because you know the roots have already grown out in their seat. And so you end up, you know, fighting against that progress and initiatives and things to be able to make things better based on the things that you're learning. but you're kinda hitting a brick wall. And so that's also I think why a lot of people get frustrated in co in corporate America and end up pursuing entrepreneurial things.
Chad
Yeah. I would agree. I think you know it becomes it comes especially especially when you start talking about, you know, the marketing side or or even even what I do in the process building and the AI automation and any of that thing, it's it's it's it's a place that is not talked about or maybe not not not I say not talked about, but they they they look at other things and they think that they kind of start putting stuff in a in a box. Like they think marketing is in its own box. And and and really it's not. I mean, when you think about marketing, marketing is like encompasses the entire structure of the organization. Or it should. And and it should. But but I often find companies and even when I was in corporate America where everything is
Ginger Galloway
Everybody's responsibility, yes. Yep.
Chad
And and maybe you don't experience this, and if you do, I'd love to talk about it, is is things get segmented and they get into their own little box and their own little world. So oftentimes you have the marketing department, they're kind of over here. HR doesn't talk to marketing because they're the fun people and we're the nerves. Like you get a lot of that. And and I and I think it's such a diseng you know, disservice to the co organization because you're you're you're really missing you're missing what makes you who you are and how and you and you also see growth stop.
Ginger Galloway
Yeah.
Ginger Galloway
Mm-hmm.
Ginger Galloway
Yeah.
Ginger Galloway
I agree.
Ginger Galloway
For sure. And I and one thing that I found in some organizations and even with a lot of my clients is that, you know, marketing sits over here and even sales, where those things should be tied as close together as possible, but they fight each other constantly. And there's this, well, you wouldn't have any leads if it wasn't for us. And it's like, well, we we wouldn't even have a company if it wasn't for us. And so it's just this us versus them that creates and and you're right, it can happen across a lot of different divisions within an organization. And so you know, between you know, we try to kind of find ways to be able to bring everybody together and give every employee in a company the tools to be able to help market in some way or another.
Chad
Yeah. It's so funny. I hear I hear this. I hear I've heard this a lot. And I even even today as as doing consulting work and working with companies, I hear it a lot of times. and and this is probably you're probably gonna cr cr I cringe every time I hear it, and you probably have heard it, so you're probably going to you too, is like I got tired I I I talked to owners of the founders and I'm like, I got tired of the the marketing and sales team fighting all the time. So the director of sales is now over marketing.
Ginger Galloway
Yes. Yes.
Chad
That's common. Believe it or not, it's common.
Ginger Galloway
Way too common, yes.
Chad
And I'm like, you you did really. That that's that's that that's that's that's great. How's that going? and and it's like, well, you know, and and you hear this, and this is unfortunate. You hear, hey, you know, we've got two young I'm not gonna that's not what I'm saying, but we got two c people that are really young, but they're they're really good on social media and they're they're they know how to do all that. And so they run our marketing department. And
Ginger Galloway
Working for you.
Ginger Galloway
Yeah.
Ginger Galloway
Yep. Yeah. And I yeah, I got lucky in that position, you know, way back in the day when I started at the at the paper. there were these new things called websites that everybody wanted, you know, and I walk in fresh out of school with my newly minted degree and they're like, Ooh, you're young. Help us do that. And and that hasn't changed. And so and then it was social media and now it's AI. And and I think that
Chad
Tell us about it.
Ginger Galloway
You know, we look to young people because they're the learners typically, you know, they're the ones that are sort of closest to that bleeding edge of technology or whatever it is that's new. And so we kind of lean on them a little bit to get it done. But you know, I'm sure in your work and I know in mine, a lot of things, particularly with social media and AI, is our job now is to put in the guardrails. so they don't just hand over the keys and let them run with it and sort of put every you know, company secret and secret sauce into Chat GPT or what that is. And we've had a lot of horror stories to kinda go along with that, lessons learned along the way.
Chad
So true. And so and so one of the things that you that you that you like and I think is great is, you know, you love the guys in the room that are the analytics, the nerds, the the I call them the bean counters, the the the people that are that are, you know, really down to 'cause those are the ones that are all you know, honestly, if you the they're the ones that's the hardest to crack because they're all about, well, show me
Ginger Galloway
Yeah.
Chad
We're spending all this money on marketing. It's not making us any money. There is no ROI. Well tell tell us about that world that you love.
Ginger Galloway
Well, you know, what I love about them, and maybe this is because I can relate to them so much, is that they picked a path in life. That they didn't say, I'm I'm gonna go into business and I can be a manager, a director, a VP anywhere. They went to school to be a lawyer. They went to school to be an engineer, an architect. Like they picked their their destination in life for their career. And I kind of love that. Like when you know who you are and you can pursue that. so I I really enjoy that about those folks and they are incredibly smart and but you know, none of those programs have marketing as part of the coursework. And so so many of them end up, I mean, some of them go and work for big firms and they've got a support system and and things along with it, but many of them end up as entrepreneurs themselves running their own small practice and they have nowhere to kind of go. So that's that's the part that I really like about working with them.
Chad
Yeah, and look, I I I I'll be honest. I could I could talk to ten marketeers and I would tell you that out of ten of them, maybe one would say those are the people that I want to work with. So for you to say that and for you to do that, I actually think it's really cool and I think you're probably on to something because they're often the ones that are making the decisions and they're the hardest to convince because they're so driven by data. They wanna see it, they want to see the proof. And they want to see it yesterday. And engineer bra engineer brains are different than than creative brains. They're just different. And the way they communicate is totally different. I think it's you know, you have to be you have to understand that. And that's that's a tough that I would say that's probably a very challenge in the room with them to to talk to them and be able to explain it to them.
Ginger Galloway
Mm-hmm. Yeah, especially in this market, in Tampa Bay, you know, competitively it's a really great sweet spot for me because so many of the agencies, you know, they want to work in, you know, retail and hospitality and travel and tourism and all the sexy stuff. And so yeah, so I'm sitting over here saying, I'll take the the boring stuff. but I I find the challenge being in the storytelling. because on paper,
Chad
The fun stuff. Yeah.
Ginger Galloway
You know, a a lot of degrees, a lot of degrees, a lot of great. And so it it's really hard to be able to tell those stories in a compelling way to be able to generate liaes to be able to ultimately give us a service, especially for companies like these, where ultimately it's not about marketing. It's not about seeing an ad and saying, you know what? I'm gonna call that engineer. It's still gonna be about word of mouth and relationship building and referral sources. And so the marketing just becomes kind of a legitimizer to that. And so that a tough sell because you're right. It's not just cashing a check, flipping a switch and having you know, having a a a deal come in. So it's it's definitely a a long haul process. But, you know, once they're in and they get it, they're like, okay, now I understand.
Chad
Yeah, I have I have some shows with some lawyer law firms that I've had on the show and you know I always I love talking to the to the law firms and and it's it's very it's it's really unique in in that you know, when they go to law school and I and I've and I've said this to them on podcast before is when when a when a lawyer says like you said, when you're an engineer, you're a lawyer, you're like you went to school, that's what you went to do. But there's no business classes. I mean, they're not teaching you to run a business, they're teaching you to practice law.
Ginger Galloway
Exactly.
Chad
And when they get in those those those shoes as as a lawyer, whether they're, you know, a partner or not a partner or or wherever they are they they're you know, how long they've been in that, is that often find and I have with them is that they they have a business that they have to run. They they they need referrals, they need leads, they need marketing, they need branding. You know, there's there's maybe twenty lawyers in town or more. And you know, they're they're They don't they don't like it, but they're selling a widget. They're selling a service. They're selling something to somebody. And they gotta have people to come in there. And so being able to, I think, you know, question I guess for you is is when you when you approach them or you're looking at going in there, it's a different sale. It's a different, I say sell or different conversation or different points of of interest to them.
Ginger Galloway
Well, of course, and and particularly with law, you know, the I was a member of the Legal Marketing Association twenty-five years ago. and as I mentioned, you know, I was in house at one of the largest law firms and there were still only a dozen of us in marketing, and that was unheard of at the time. most it was like the a secretary or a paralegal slash marketing. And so But many of the partners and kind of the old school was like, well, you know, marketing and advertising is below the dignity of the profession. And, you know, they didn't want to go down that road at all. And so finding ways to kind of baby step our way into doing it. And now, you know, it's a lot more accepted. The bar associations have their rules in place about what you're allowed to say or not. And so there's more structure around it. And now the Legal Marketing Association is, you know, the the local chapters over a hundred people. Nationally, it's it's a very big thing. So and I I I have found that in a lot of those professional services organizations where, you know, back in the olden days, you know, you didn't have to do a whole lot of marketing. And, you know, when I was in in school, it used to be, you know, you only had to hear about something seven times for it to kind of register in your brain. And now I just read something where that number's like twenty-one now because of the constant influx of information that we're getting every day. And so you know, it's a battle. But, you know, getting getting them on board. But by the time they get to me, I think they are already kind of in tune to the idea of it. that I don't have to convince them why they have to do it anymore.
Chad
Yeah. Well, it's one of the biggest challenges that you face when you go into and and maybe something that's that's a challenge that you that's a common theme that you see. and specifically like talking about law firms, like when you go in there. I know I know they're all different and and I'm not asking for trade secrets or anything like that, but like what are some of the things that you notice kind of that's that's a pattern?
Ginger Galloway
the biggest pattern is just sort of that that tendency to want to follow versus lead. You know, that they're not gonna take any chances. They're gonna look around and see what everybody else is doing first before they say, Okay, yeah, we'll do that. and so it's i and that's risky, you know, to be an early adopter and to run out there and try something first. and so we try to find ways where we again can just kind of baby step them and build some foundational blocks and then, you know, kind of lead them down a certain path. But you know, there's there's some people that you're never gonna convince otherwise. And so we s we stick with kind of the simple, you know, let's put together a decent website. Let's make it actually searchable. Let's let's get some information out there.
Chad
Yeah, no, I mean I I mean you're you're you're literally, you know, when you say they're they're the I I love the parts you said about they're they're more out to to follow than lead and and but that's but but that's what a lawyer does. I mean they're they're looking at cases, they're looking at cate law cases that have that are that have already gone through and and they follow you know, most often reference those cases when they're defending or or or or or not. And so their brain is is wired that way. So
Ginger Galloway
Yeah. Right.
Ginger Galloway
Yeah, yeah.
Chad
And and it's a it's a s it's a switch. It's a and it and I get it, it's tough. Like it's a tough thing for them. And I imagine that counseling through that is is challenging sometimes.
Ginger Galloway
And I find that across pretty much all of our industries, you know, law, finance, healthcare, engineering, architecture, technology. I mean, very, very rarely are they gonna step out and and try something first. but and that's okay with me. You know, I I love kind of traditional marketing, that everything doesn't have to be digital, everything doesn't have to, you know, everything doesn't have to be a affiliated or or AI forward now. That there's that there is still a lot of really great again, storytelling, but there's a lot of great kind of soul to marketing and and you know, kind of the classic way of communicating.
Chad
Yeah. So you one of the things that I love is is I love that part you say marketing is a long play. And my goodness, if I had a, you know, I don't know how many times I've been in in corporate meetings and the the ROI word comes up. We've all heard the big ROI word. It's like the thing, right? So what how do you tell tell me about that? What is that? What is marketing long play for you? Just just kind of walk me through that.
Ginger Galloway
Yes, indeed.
Ginger Galloway
Yeah, I mean, when we talk about measurements, you know, everyone kind of runs to the P and L first. You know, it's like, okay, well, how how did that do? And a lot of times it's just trying to find other ways of measuring just to be able to kind of get them ready for ultimately the proof on the P and L or that that balance sheet. And so, it's about you know, metrics about just inquiries. you know, and In the example, you know, of maybe an architecture firm, it's like, okay, well, if your business is coming from word of mouth, let's start meeting more people to have more mouths to refer. And so, you know, let's get involved in organizations. Where do you want to be? Where do you want to speak? Do you want to be on podcasts? Like try to get them comfortable to be able to be more visible versus, you know, it's like, okay, well, You know, how many events did you attend? You know, how many callbacks did you get? You know, you hosted this event, how many people attended? And then we can look at kind of the traditional digital metrics. How many people are on the website? How long are they staying around? Are they clicking off? What are they reading? Let's do more of that. So it's giving them metrics that aren't necessarily behind dollar signs that can kind of say, okay, this might actually work.
Chad
Yeah. So one of the one of the hot topics that are out there and and I I I get asked this all the time because I do this. I do A AI automation workflows and and you know, within within law firms is is can be can be a very it's a it's a touchy subject. It can be a very touchy subject. And what what's your thoughts on where we are with with with AI and and and maybe your advice for a law firm or an engineer firm or or something when it comes to to AI and and and what that looks like or may maybe you're against it and that's okay too.
Ginger Galloway
Yeah. No, I I'm a fan of AI and I'm seeing a lot of applications and and ways that all organizations could use it effectively. where I'm seeing it most on the marketing side is about, you know, generating content. You know, give me a headline for this, or you know, give me a a content calendar for the next six weeks, give me a a caption for the social media post. And so that's a lot of how I'm seeing it now. and on the surface that can seem, you know, pretty innocuous, but
Chad
What?
Ginger Galloway
Again, when you hand it to the intern and they take this research document that they just got from, you know, their research department and they upload that to Chat GPT to be able to glean some good data points out of for the next blog articles. Like, well, now it's out there and nothing you can really do about it. And by the way, now the output is not copyrightable and so you don't own that anymore. And so there's There's a lot of like I mentioned, the kind of the guardrails that we put in place. where I I for organizations that are committed to it and are really curious about it, I always try to bring in who whomever their tech support is, whether they have in-house or if they have like an MSP that they rely on to be able to put some guardrails in place about you know, having just in-house where nothing is really shared with the web and the learning model and those kinds of things. But you know, how they can use it appropriately, what information can go in, can go out. but I see a lot of things in automations. So it's less about content and kind of that surface level work. It's really more about streamlining the business and being able to get things done.
Chad
Yeah.
Chad
Yeah, I think that's you know, for me I think that's that's where I I usually typically always try to start with with with people on that is because, you know You you look at you look you you gotta look at AI as a tool. It's it's what it is. It's it's it's it's it's just a tool. It's just like going out to the if you're a mechanic and you go out to the tools tool shelf and you pick up a wrench, it's what it's the same thing. It's what it is, right? It's it's a way to make you more efficient, right? You know you're you're gonna use this tool, this wrench, to to open turn that boat way better than you taking your fingers and trying to do it. You may be there for several days trying to do that, right? It's a tool. Same way in a concept inside of a business in that is is using it as a tool to help kind of resource gathering flows, making things easier, processing. You know, I I use this analogy a lot of times when you when you when you think about with the world we live in today with AI, it's like taking a room full of kids and open a bag of Skittles and you throw it on the floor. Well, what are they gonna do? They're just gonna start gobbling up everything on the floor. They're just gonna grab this, grab this, grab this. Or you can be the one kid that sits back and just takes the whole bag. And and you gotta know what it is that you want to do with it. And and and we gotta be very careful because a lot of times you get a lot of younger people that just start, you need this stack, you need this, you need that, because there's a lot of it coming at And you really need to goes back to what it what are we doing and how we're doing it, and then what flows in that, what AI automation works in that to help us be more efficient. If that's if that's case analysis.
Ginger Galloway
Mm-hmm.
Chad
Well, there's a great there's some AI tools out there that are really good to take case analysis and we're we're maybe paralegal did a lot of that work before having to go to you know, pulling books and doing this and research for hours and hours. You can do that in a matter of a few clicks today. And that's a that's that's what I mean, and I guess that's what I'm going to. That's that's workflow automation within your company.
Ginger Galloway
Right, right.
Ginger Galloway
It's powerful. Yeah. So are you getting any questions about GEO, kind of the search engine piece of you know, AI and kind of how you can get your company recommended?
Chad
Yeah. I'm sorry, say that again.
Ginger Galloway
Are you getting questions about that? About the the GEO how to do that?
Chad
yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, we used to we used to do a search on everybody searched now, you on on Google. Like, you know, who's the best lawyer in town? And we're s we're seeing more and more people and and and you're probably just kinda worth talking about is don't people are going to to to the CLOD or Chat GBT, who's the best lawyer in town? And so I'm hearing a lot of law firms asking that question and and and a lot of a lot of companies. Like that's that's the way people are searching now.
Ginger Galloway
Yeah. Right.
Ginger Galloway
Yeah. Yeah. And I'm I'm curious, you know, I've read some things about it, about how, you know, a lot of the the methods and sort of the the logistics about that is are the same as SEO because it's still using the web as kind of the the source information for that. But I'm just I'm curious about, you know, any kind of tips or tricks you may have come across for that.
Chad
Yeah, I think I think the biggest thing is is you gotta remember where the sources where it's pulling from. It's not a it's you said it best, it's not a separate little you know, use Claude or whatever. It's not a like its own separate little thing over here that's just gathering information. It's pulling everything off the web anyway, right? I mean it's where it's going it's going the web and research document. Any anything that has been published or put out, like physically out beyond what I call a structure. Like like if this building is a structure. What stays in there is doesn't have access. But as soon as it goes into that, that's put out. I think that's what you were talking about earlier. Now it's out in the universe for it to be captured or grabbed or whatever, right? So so you you you have to you have to understand like where it's pulling from. So, you know, that's we we we very much get into these key words, these fancy new words that are out there, and we think, that's what I gotta do. Again, it's it's the shiny object theory. The new shiny object you run over there and do that. And then in reality is it's pulling just straight from the website that's already there. So if you've done a really good job branding and you got a great marketer like you, and you do all those things first, you're gonna be out there. but it's a it's it's a new tactic, right? That's the new sho again, we we we we live in a world of new shiny objects.
Ginger Galloway
Yeah, and that's the latest, yeah. Yeah.
Chad
And that's the latest, right? So w one of the things I I I wanted the the you said this and what we talked before and I love it. It's I I is I believe it to my core, is you don't charge for discovery. You you really are about like, I wanna know what your problems are before I can help you. why do you do that? I have my theories why I do it, but I'd I'd love to hear from you.
Ginger Galloway
I mean my my initial response to that is because I would do this for free if I could. Because I love it so much. I I really do love hearing about, you know, people's origin stories and how they got started and you know why they chose that and and what issues they're having and how they've tried to solve them up to this point and just being able to kind of connect the dots. and I I wanna know that I'm gonna be the right fit and that I you have a at least a good shot of helping them meet their goals. And, you know, there's a lot of times, well I don't say a lot of times, but there are times when it's like, I don't think we're the right fit for you. But here's two or three people that I would recommend that you contact because I think they may be a better solution for you. And that saves both of us a whole lot of stress down the road, you know, than than that kind of fake it till you make it kind of philosophy of just saying, well, all right, it's a paycheck, let's wing it.
Chad
I and I love that. And that's that's exactly the philosophy that I have because I'm not I'm not out here, you know, look, I have to make a living, you have to make a living, but there is so there are so many people that are just trying to get people to pay them to do something and they never get a solution. I c sit coming from corporate America and sitting on that side of it, I have engaged with companies that are going that we're trying to hire to bring on to help with a certain project. whatever it may be. And and oftentimes you get a scope of work or whatever. And and it and you just you find yourself like nothing never gets completed. It's just it's just ongoing. And it ends up being month after month after month. Now you're a year down the road and you're like, what are we doing here? And I when I started my company, I vowed that I was going to be totally different in that. And I'm like you, I love discovery. I I think discovery is the funnest part about what probably you and I do, learning about them.
Ginger Galloway
Completely. Yeah.
Chad
Why do they get created? And oftentimes I find that the problems are not really a bad problem. It's just, it's, it's a, it's a process problem. It's a, it's, it's the way we've always done it. And this is what we are, and this is who we are. And and there's a lot of people who have feelings about the way we've always done it. And you just have to kind of walk them through that. And when you do.
Ginger Galloway
Yes, okay.
Chad
You find that you may be a solution. And I love what you said. If I'm not the right fit, I'm not gonna sell something. I'm not the right fit. And that's okay, right?
Ginger Galloway
Yeah. Yeah. And I heard something really early in my career that I replay over and over and over in my head is that some people hold on to something so tightly that their hand isn't open to receive what's next. and I think I think about that all the time. That if I say yes to this opportunity, I'm saying no to a better fit. And that's gonna be smoother, that's not gonna give me headaches, it's not gonna keep me up at night. It's you know, they're gonna pay that.
Chad
I love that.
Ginger Galloway
bill without any stress at all. Like it just karmically it's a it's just a much better way to approach business.
Chad
I I couldn't agree more. I think one of the biggest joys I get is seeing companies be sex be successful. And successful looks a lot of different ways. But but being able to find a you know, being obvious obviously and and I I think you probably feel the same way, being entrusted from someone to be able to give me the ability to come in, that they trust me enough to help them is an honor. It's an honor. And yeah.
Ginger Galloway
Yeah. It's more important. I mean this is this is a giant part of their life.
Chad
It it is. And and I I take every opportunity, and I I know you do too, is is an opportunity that they have entrusted me to come in there. And so I want to give them the most honest assessment that I can and make sure they know exactly what they're getting. And I probably do more than I probably should for free, but that's just the way I am and I believe in in in helping people because I at the end of the day, I want them to be successful. Cause that's
Ginger Galloway
Yeah, of course.
Chad
That's how I value whether I did a good job or not, is if they're successful.
Ginger Galloway
Yeah, for sure. I mean it's a it's a big responsibility. And, you know, our businesses are based on word of mouth referrals as well. And so how do you create a referral network if you're not doing good work and they're seeing success? And so, you know, it it all works together.
Chad
Absolutely.
Chad
It does. Well, Ginger, this has been absolutely we're we're bumping on our our time and this has been absolutely phenomenal to to have this conversation with you. I think there's been a lot of great stuff. Where where if if people are out there and maybe they're in the Tampa area, maybe they're somewhere else and they're like, you know, I want to see if Pinstripe can help me. how do they get how do they get in touch with you?
Ginger Galloway
Yeah, well they could take a look at Pinstripe marketing . com. you also mentioned the fractional CMO work. That's at the tandemfactory . com. and I'm on LinkedIn. Feel free to reach out and send me a message. I I always respond. And and students, I'm I'm always happy to help and point you in the right direction.
Chad
Well well one thing is for sure I can tell you that that what you've heard from Ginger and and w that is exactly who she is. And I know that she is somebody which is why I want to do the podcast with her because she's she's genuine and she's actually really looking to help people. So, you know, if you're if you're out there and you're you're you're like, man, I I don't know that we've got problems, that's okay too. Because maybe you don't know. just start a conversation. You know, listen
Ginger Galloway
I would love to meet you if you don't have any problems.
Chad
We we are we are both of us, we're not the be all end all to everything. We don't we're not walking around the smartest people in the room. But we have experienced some things and we we we have experienced other people's problems. And more than not, we find that there are some commonalities and problems across companies. And I hate to use the word problems because it sounds so negative. But I but there's solutions out there that can help. And that's what I think both of us want to do. And I know Ginger's very passionate about that.
Ginger Galloway
No. We do.
Ginger Galloway
Usually.
Chad
And that's what I really like about her is that she's she's she's being honest and telling exactly who she is. And if you're out there and you and you need and you're looking for somebody, I I would highly recommend giving her a call.
Ginger Galloway
thanks, Jen.
Chad
Well, Ginger, it's been a pleasure and as always, process over pressure.
Ginger Galloway
Process over pressure.
Chad
That's it. So we'll I'll stop it there.
Subscribe
Get every article and episode in your inbox
No spam. Unsubscribe anytime.