Jeff Lerner
Founder · Misnomer
The Blueprint for Brand Consistency: Why Nobody Knows What Your Company Does | Jeff Lerner
Click to play episode
"Your opinion doesn't matter. What matters is the opinion of your audience, your buyers, the people you want to reach.
Key Takeaways
- ◆Jeff says marketing is not advertising, it's the emotional connection people form with your brand and whether they can explain why they'd choose you over a competitor, which takes time to build and cannot be fixed overnight by throwing money at ads.
- ◆He uses the foundation analogy: your house may look beautiful, but if you skipped pouring the concrete slab underneath, it will collapse, brands that skip foundational work (ICP, messaging alignment, value prop) will fail when headwinds hit.
- ◆The most common startup failure is internal misalignment: the executive team, marketing, and sales each describe the company differently, so the website says one thing, the pitch deck says another, and the sales team sells feature sets instead of who the company is, killing conversion rates.
- ◆Jeff's rule for content: before publishing a blog post, ad, or website section, identify which persona it targets by name, if you can't pinpoint it, don't publish it, because putting content out just because it's a fun topic wastes money.
- ◆Brand consistency is non-negotiable, your website, pitch deck, sales conversation, and product UI must look, feel, and sound the same so the handoff from marketing to sales doesn't break the buyer's trust.
- ◆He tells founders their opinion doesn't matter, what the audience wants matters more than what the CEO likes, and when he frames it as "your opinion doesn't matter and we make money, or your opinion matters and you make nothing," 100% of the time they choose money.
- ◆Don't hire a 22-year-old fresh grad as your only marketer and expect them to execute 30 sales reps' random requests for decks and web pages with no strategy, putting a warm body in the seat without structure is a wasted resource that won't return investment.
Full transcript
Show
Chad
Welcome back to Process Over Pressure. My guest today has spent his entire career on the part of business that everybody pays for, but almost nobody understands. It's called marketing. Not the logo and the blog post version, the real version, who you are, what you actually do, and whether the people inside your company can even agree on it. Jeff Lerner is the founder of Misnomer, a brand and marketing strategy practice out of San Diego. He spent 15 plus years inside startups and gross stage companies, including a stretch as a multi-company CMO. Before going out on his own, he keynotes, he advises founders, and this fall, he's releasing a book called Nobody Knows What You Do. Which, if you've ever sat in a leadership meeting where eight people describe the company eight different ways, it's going to hit close to home. What I love about Jeff is that he doesn't sell hype. He's the guy telling people AI isn't going to double your revenue overnight. And the marketing is a long play game. Not a check you write and the results you get yesterday. That's a process over pressure conversation. I've ever heard one. Jeff, welcome to the show.
Jeff Lerner
Thank you so much for having me, Chad. Really appreciate it.
Chad
So Jeff, you know, we we had our little preek talk and we got a chance to get to know each other, which I always do, and I always enjoy that. and and one of the things that that I think I I mentioned it even in the in the beginning is is your philosophy on marketing, I think is is is different than a lot of people. And I I think we would be crazy not to talk about that and give you a chance to kind of explain what that means because I I talk to a lot of marketing people. And I can tell you your your take on it is totally different. And I love it. So tell us a little bit about that.
Jeff Lerner
Yeah, it's a great, great question and a great point. You know, I I think for for non-marketers, you know, especially, there's the misconception that marketing equals advertising. Right? So what you see out in the world is marketing. And and sure, that's a component of it, but the reality is it's so much deeper than A a TV ad, you know, something that you see, a digital ad you see online, you know, all of those kinds of outward-facing marketing initiatives, like those are ads. And that is fundamentally different because what marketing really is and what it is core to brand development, like how do people feel about your brand? What emotional connection are they creating with your brand? And and most importantly, if they have an option to you know purchase you know a product or a service from your brand or your company versus a comp a competitor's, are they choosing you and can they vocalize why? those are the essential key components that take time to build, that is not like you said, an an overnight throw some money at it, it gets fixed, it gets solved. These are core. you know, as I call them foundational elements, right? We I make the analogy of, you know, your house, right? Like you may have a beautiful house. Someone walks in, they're gonna be like, wow, this is a gorgeous kitchen. This is, you know, beautiful you know, windows and this and that, you know, no one's gonna comment and and compliment you on the foundation, the the concrete slab that you poured underneath it. But if you didn't do that part, like your house could call you know fall down at any given moment. And That's what brands overlook. They want to build the house before they've created the foundation. And my philosophy, my belief is the time, energy, effort to build that foundation will drive the return on investment multitudes greater than jumping right into building that house.
Chad
beautifully said, and I couldn't agree with you more. And and what you're talking about, and and my terminology in my world, I mean, be being a consultant myself and and talking with business owners, what you just described, while yes, and marketing, especially business owners, the foundational piece, what I call the process, I I I I use that a lot, is so critical. And I could tell you that. If you're if you're a young business owner out there, you're you're you're new and you're like, I don't know what I'm doing, I can tell you that I've talked to companies that have been business for 40 plus years that have the same issues. It doesn't matter where you sit at. That foundational process, having those things, if you if you're feeling pressure, whether it be marketing, whether it be business, whatever it may be, I can almost guarantee it goes back to some process is broken.
Jeff Lerner
W i yeah, completely agree. And and you know, it it doesn't always show itself in the beginning, right? Like you were just saying, like y you know, I have companies that that come to me that reach out to me, that they've been around for a long time, they've had success, they've grown, and
Chad
Yeah, sure.
Jeff Lerner
All of a sudden there's a new competitor in the market. There's a shift in buyer behavior. There's, you know, headwinds from a you know economic standpoint, you know, all of these other factors that potentially can show up at any given time. And that's when they're like, hey, how come we're not growing the same way we were? Why are we seeing things, you know, kind of falling apart a little bit? You know, and it's One of those things where it's we look at it and we go back and say, okay, well, the reason why, you know, the boat has sprung a little bit of a leak here is because we haven't done the work to kind of prevent that, to get out in front of it, to do all of the things, like you said, the process so that when those situations arise, the it's not a matter of, you know, we have to now. identify the problem, try to plug the hole, fix it, move on. It's we've planned for this. That hole has already been plugged. And now we just have to, you know, just do a quick check to make sure it's reinforced and and grow, you know, and then and then move forward. And that means those those complicated times become far less complicated.
Chad
Yeah. So so I'm curious when when you're looking at when you're, you know, the world we live in today, when you hear the word marketing and you hear like, you know, ever everybody, you know, my experience is is is been I'm sure I don't know you can speak for yourself, but people go, Hey, we got a marketing problem. Like you hear that word, like I got we got a marketing problem. And and we live in a world where there's so much noise in the marketing spectrum. I'm just curious your thoughts on that. Like what do you what do you what is your thoughts on that? And You know, for people who are out there, like they they they automatically think that it's two things. It's a sales problem or it's marketing problem. and so I'm just curious your thoughts on that.
Jeff Lerner
Yeah, the the two are very much intertwined. you know, typically when there's a sales problem, in a lot of cases, it's because the marketing has not done enough to support that and to, you know, help move customers or or buyers along in the process to the point where a salesperson can close the deal easier and faster. I mean, especially in like the B2B world. You know, I tell people that like your website should be the number one salesperson in your company, right? Like, and it may not always be the closer, but at the very least, it's getting people to the point of, you know, that that last minute buying decision. you know, the idea of a a marketing problem, as you said, is often, you know, a very blanket statement of we're not. Bringing on the you know the revenue or the sales, you know, our ads aren't working or converting, you know, there's a laundry list of what is kind of put in that bucket. And my response to that is always, you know, to dive deeper into it and say, okay, like let's let's just assume there is a marketing problem. Let's identify where that exists. Like, you know, number one, are people engaged with your brand? Do they know who you are? if you didn't tell them, like, you know, there there's the the you know, the the way to test that right is you can ask someone like, hey, name three companies in the you know, whatever, in the logistics, you know, industry. And you know, if someone can say your company name in that with, you know, without you being prompted, that's great. But then if you're like, hey, do you have you heard of XY? you know, Z logistics. And if they're like, yes, okay, well, that's aided, you know, in in trying to get their response. And so like there are different tools and levers that I use to understand is it a brand awareness problem? It is, is it a value prop problem? Is it a pricing problem? Or is it just the ads themselves are not resonating? I mean, there's a laundry list of ways it can be a quote unquote marketing problem.
Jeff Lerner
But it's not as easy as simple as just saying, it's a marketing problem and you know it'll be easy to fit identify and fix. It's not. and that's where having that detailed process to identify all the different touch points and where those gaps may be, that's how you can much easier and quicker identify what those areas of opportunity for improvement are.
Chad
Yeah, so so yeah, I mean what I what I'm hearing you say and and I think it's I think it's I think it's key is there's discovery time. Like you've gotta know you've gotta know where the leak is and where the problem is. And you know, for that for that business owner that's sitting out there or those, you know, they're they're they're they're you know, they they have a business and they're man, we're not we're not we're not growing, we're not we're not making money, we're we need we need better more sales. I mean all the things that you hear, right? We sales are down, we need more sales, we need you know, we're we're people don't know who we are. All All the things, right. All the as as bad things as you could think of. For that and and I'm just asking you 'cause 'cause I see it and I just want to know what your opinion is on it. Oftentimes they you have people in the leadership row or sitting at the top and they're looking at it and they're starting to point fingers at the problem without really knowing deep down what the problem is. Does that make sense?
Jeff Lerner
It it does. And that that's absolutely true. And you know, I I have had clients that will tell you that that I almost approach the borderline annoying them when my response to their questions or their comments is for me to simply say why. Right? So when they say, Hey, we're you know, our business should be growing, you know, we're we put you know, at we we you know, launched a Google Ads account and we're running ads To tell people, you know, about what we do? Why? Like, why was that your the path that you chose? Like, what research have you done to decide that that's where your audience is and that's where they're making buying decisions? You know, so when they say, well, we you know we redid our website because we want to have you know it look a certain way, why? Like what what information are you making these decisions based off of?
Chad
Yeah. Great question.
Jeff Lerner
Is it just a personal feeling of, hey, but I like this color palette, I like this, I want this. Well, that's a if that's the direction you want to go in, that's that's your prerogative to do that as a business owner. But I would push back and say what you want matters far less than what your customers want. So if you want to grow your business, you need to be thinking about them, not about.
Chad
Love that.
Chad
Love it.
Jeff Lerner
what you how you want things to show up necessarily. So I do I I pepper, you know, questions of why, because I want to get to that deeper understanding because that's where you can identify those gaps.
Chad
Yeah, I always I use the analogy putting the cart before the horse. You've probably heard that, right? Everybody does that. Very often I find and and even when when I was in the executive world and and business world and before consulting, I would always find that that a lot of times and and and I think you'll you'll relate to this, is they'll put out their brand like we're talking about marketing, they'll put out their their their brand content, they'll put out their, you know, their their social media posts, their their LinkedIn posts. They'll they'll they'll build all this asset.
Jeff Lerner
Yeah.
Chad
First, or the marketing department per se is building that over here. And they come up with some really cool stuff, man. Great pictures. I mean, it looks great. I mean, it's sharp. Don't get me wrong. Like they're really good at what they do. But oftentimes I find they build that stuff before really asking the questions that they need to ask before they build it. And so they're putting that stuff out there and they're wondering why it's not connecting.
Jeff Lerner
Yeah.
Jeff Lerner
And and and that's you know one of the things that I you know implement when I go and again we talk about process. Like part of my process is when I start working with a client, it's let's identify your you know your ICP, your ideal customer profile. And you know, and then the personas within that. So now once that's been established, once and we have complete alignment within the company, top to bottom. Executive team, sales leaders, marketing, everyone buys into this is our ideal customer profile. These are the personas that that kind of go along with it. Now it's okay. If you want to create a blog post, you want to put content out there, whatever it is, which persona or personas is that specifically targeting? And if you can't answer that, then don't put that one out there. Right. So don't put a blog post out just because you're like, hey, this is a fun topic, unless you can pinpoint it and say, by putting this blog post out, by putting this ad out, by you know, adding this section to the website, it will speak directly to you know the persona of Mike, the young business, you know, executive who loves technology, whatever that persona looks like. If you can pinpoint that and say, hey, this will resonate with Mike for these reasons. Great. Do it. Put that blog post out there. Promote it. Do what you want to do. If you are just like, well, nope, there's no, I can't specifically tie it to any one persona or anything, go back to the drawing board.
Chad
Man, and and that's and that's so good. And and really that's I I I'll tell you, I think, and I'm I'm gonna go out on a limp here for people who are watching this or are listening to this. And a lot of business owners will not admit that. And that's okay. it's I understand that. But I think what you said is so true, and I think that's what we have to we have to realize is that we're in a we're in an age where content and information is so like vastly coming in. And if you really don't, if you're put if you're building stuff because the palette looks good and you're not building stuff that sticks or actually speaks to who you're trying to sell to, you're really throwing money away in your in the marketing side thing. And and it and it goes the same thing even in the sales side. Like if you if you're if you're if you got a bunch of salespeople running across trying to sell something, but you really don't know your structure, your process, what you're selling or who you are, who your customers are, then then what are you doing?
Jeff Lerner
Yeah. I I mean
Chad
That's where they gotta really stop and think. Like, you know, and I think that's where somebody like yourself, me that's been doing this, that can kind of stop and ask the question. Ask what I hear you say is you have to ask them hard questions that sometimes they really don't like to ask. And they'll give you an answer, but it's usually very surface level and you have to kinda dig a little deeper, dig a little deeper to get down to the really where it's at. But that's the only way you can help them and that's the only way they're gonna grow.
Jeff Lerner
I exactly. I I mean it's if you're a technology company, are you going to spend ten thousand dollars to get a booth at you know, a organic foods convention? you know, pr probably not, because like your audience isn't there, right? Like, so you could try to build some brand awareness by putting a nice booth in the middle of the floor and people are gonna look at it and be like, Well, that's interesting. I don't know why they're here, but okay.
Chad
Yeah. Well.
Jeff Lerner
That's the same with content, with ads, with anything else. Like, why would you put it out there if it's not the right audience? And that's what business owners sometimes kind of overlook is they know they need to do marketing. They know they need to get their brand and their, you know, products and services out there, but they don't spend that time to think about it in a strategic way that helps them to. really refine every element before they spend a dollar. And that's key.
Chad
Yeah, it's so true. So I gotta ask this because you and I are we we kind of, you know, similar in in we both been with a lot of startups and you know, growth companies and been in where you know, I've I've spent a lot with some equity firms where they've bought companies and come in and they, you know, they they usually buy things and so and they look at it and it's like, man, this is a great buy on paper, you know, we can make a lot of money in this. And then you get in there and there's usually a like a lot of work that's gotta be done to get it going the right direction. So I think you'll probably relate to that. So what what is what is one thing? Maybe one thing's not fair. Maybe maybe you need to be more than one thing because that's probably hard to to answer just one thing that that you could say in a startup or in a beginning of a process that is missing or you have seen that's missed the most. Maybe it's one or two things that you would be like, This is a pretty common theme that happens right here. What would that be?
Jeff Lerner
Yeah, and and you know, you alluded to it, you know, in the intro, is there are one of the most common things I see is when you have, you know, a founder, an executive team, you know, a an early stage startup where collectively as a a a leadership organization, they themselves have not fully aligned on what the company is. You know, they they know the product, right? Like, so they're like, we know what our product is, we know what we're selling, we know the solution, but the question of who you are is very different than what you do. And that's a pressure point that often gets overlooked because what ends up happening, and this is what I've seen on multiple occasions.
Chad
So true.
Jeff Lerner
Is you have a marketing team that is tasked with growing brand awareness, you know, really looking to grow leads and you know really facilitate those early stages of a conversation. And so the marketing team is like, okay, our company is X. This is what we're all about. This is what we do. This is the core of who we are. And so that's the messaging, and that's everything that kind of goes out from a marketing perspective. Well, then the sales team gets that lead and they take over, and the sales team is now looking at the company differently based on the leadership of the sales organization. And so now they're selling feature sets and other things, and they kind of ignore the the core of who the company is, and they focus on again just what it does. And when you have those types of breakage points, Then conversion rates dramatically decrease. It's the same reason why I tell every client: if you take away a handful of things from anything I ever tell you, it's brand consistency is the most important thing that you're gonna do. Your website needs to match your pitch deck, needs to match what your sales team is saying. Like all of that needs to be consistent so that as soon as you are transitioning someone from one touch point to another. They still feel connected because it all looks, feels, sounds the same. And so when that breaks, because different departments are kind of talking about things differently. And I've seen it where the website, the front end looks, you know, a certain way, and then the back end, you know, UI that, you know, is being built purely by the engineering team uses a different font, different color palette, you know, whatever. And it's that's a breakage point. That's where a user is like, whoa. Wait a second, this seems off. I I'm gonna go. And those are some of the most overlooked things that startups do because they just don't have someone that usually is in the room that says, Hey, before we start telling anybody about this, let's align on who we are, what we do, what we're all about, and most importantly, why us? Why would somebody buy from us compared to anyone else in the market?
Chad
Yeah.
Chad
Yeah, I think I think, you know, to kind of elaborate on that, when you when you're looking at a a smart a startup or a small company, you know, it all comes down to dollars, what they have to spend and all that. And so I think people in the room, and this is from my experience, are more are more focused on and I get it, focused on w well, what's the what's the margin? Like you'll hear this a lot. Like what's the what what is our margin? What is our margin? What is our margin? And so they'll They'll either have a and you've probably seen this, they'll have a very lean or no marketing department whatsoever. Or they hire somebody that's out of high school or whatever. And they're they're well, I'm gonna hire them because they really good at social media because they're young. It happens all the time, right? I mean, I'm not I'm telling stuff it's true. and and they hire that person and then they expect like, okay, well, well, we're gonna, you know, we're gonna we're gonna refresh the website, you know, we'll spend a couple hundred dollars here.
Jeff Lerner
One hundred percent true.
Chad
I mean, I've even been in companies where their their marketing budget for the month is a thousand dollars and they w and they wanna do they want to do twelve and fifteen million. this is real world. This is true. And and I'm like, you you you're you're so focused on today, like especially in the beginning. Like you you just because you spend the money up front doesn't mean you gotta always spend it. You you but but but you do. There's just saying you gotta spend money to make money. And it's but it's gotta spend the right money and the right places and have the right people doing the right things because if you don't do that, you will see peaks and valleys.
Jeff Lerner
Yep. Yeah. I I mean you're dead on accurate. You know, I worked at a startup where the the marketing team was a recent college graduate who had been an intern at the company for, you know, the the previous, you know, two summers or something like that. And, you know, the the role that she had was, you know, sales reps. There were 30 sales reps, one marketer, 30 sales reps. And the sales reps would would go to her and say, Hey, can you put a deck together for me? And I need it to say this, this, and this. And you know, she's 22, just out of school, and she's like, Yes, no problem, like builds the deck. Or someone says, Hey, can you add a page to the website that does this? Sure, no problem. Adds a page to the website. Right? So there's no
Chad
Wow.
Jeff Lerner
Cohesive strategy. They're no cohesive messaging. Different sales reps are asking for different things. And the expectation is that a 22-year-old recent college grad is gonna be able to s stand up and say, Hey, this is fundamentally wrong and we're we're doing ourselves a disservice? Of course not. Like I at 22, I would never have been, you know, comfortable enough to say that. Like even at 32, I still may not have said it.
Chad
Absolutely. Absolutely.
Jeff Lerner
And so it's it's that kind of belief, like you just said, of okay, well, yeah, we need a marketing function, so let's just have a a warm body in a seat who can do some of the things. that's you know, a wasted resource because it's doing the things without the strategy behind it and structure and process is just. someone pulling levers that are probably not going to result in a return on that investment.
Chad
Yeah. I mean, you know, we we we live and it and it and it's this is very common for for smaller companies and and and I say smaller companies, I think it's even prevalent in some bigger companies. because most of the time, you know, in the executive seat or the owner seat, y you know, you're you're you are. I mean, you're I I I'm an owner, I'm a business owner, you are. I get it. Like I sit here and think about okay, well, where's where's the money gonna come in from? Where's the dollar gonna come in from? Like that is something that's very important. And it's very hard to get out of that mind shift and think about go back to foundation and and and say, you know, cause you cause you cause you want money coming in, right? Everybody does. Everybody wants to sell something. I don't think anybody goes, Well, I hope I don't sell anything. But it's that momentum shift in that brain to go back to the foundation and building those those blocks, like you said at the very beginning. And I see this happen a lot in small comp startup companies, you know, companies that are that are That are trying to get off the ground and and they're sitting there and they're just so frustrated because they're just plateaued and they're thinking, well, you know, we got a great product, we got a great thing that was I call it widgets. We got a great widget, but we're just not getting anybody buying that. And I I just I I I feel for those people. And you see it all I mean, you my goodness, you see it every day, right? And you ask yourself, what what is it that they're missing? And there's a couple things. And so You know, I think I'd I'd love to talk a little about about a few of those things that they they miss and hopefully helpful for people that's listening because there's some things that they miss. And and what is one thing that that you would you would you would say, hey, this is one thing I know they miss.
Jeff Lerner
I mean, I wish I could pinpoint it and say that there was, you know, the the one thing. It's you know, it's it's that understanding of what drives purchasing decisions and you know and gets people to be excited, passionate, you know, interested in a product when there are, you know, other, you know, comparable solutions out there.
Chad
Yeah. Maybe they're not, yeah.
Jeff Lerner
And it all comes down to emotion, right? Like branding and marketing is psychology. it's the psychology that goes by, you know, look around, right? Like you can see that you can get a pair of yoga pants at Costco for $9.99. Or you can go to Lululemon and spend $150 for a pair that doesn't look all that different, other than the logo that's on it.
Chad
Yeah. That's right.
Chad
Absolutely.
Jeff Lerner
And so it's well, why would someone spend $150 on a pair of yoga pants when you can buy them for $9.99 at Costco? Because of what that brand represents, because of when you put those on and people see you in them, or how it makes you feel as a as a person. And that's purely psychological. It's purely, you know, kind of the the connection that that brand has created with its core audience. And that is really hard to build overnight. Let me say it is impossible to build overnight. And it's really hard to build when you are not spending that time to really dive deep into the emotional triggers of your buying set. And so
Chad
yeah.
Chad
Beautiful.
Jeff Lerner
That's where brands really or organizations, whether it is B2B, and everyone talks about well, you that doesn't matter in B2B because it's business to business. Well, it's still a human being that's going to make a purchasing decision. You know, so even if you're selling into IBM, right, the person on the other side that you're trying to connect with, it's still a person. And what's going to get them to Advocate for your solution to want to see if they can get it implemented and go through the layers of approvals that you probably have at a company like IBM, is that you have somehow have connected your solution in a way that they personally feel an attachment to. It's going to make their job easier. It's going to make them look good within their company. Like there's a whole bunch of emotional triggers that. You can be building off of, and a feature set's not going to do that. It's the brand that will do that, and that's what's overlooked.
Chad
I I think that you so elegant just put that and and I'm I'm you know I'm I'm from the South, so we we probably talk a little slower and think a little a little more in strategic, but I I I say I think you just said exactly what I what I was one of the things that I was gonna say is I think what happens most of the time is we don't really understand how our people buy. We don't know. We don't study them. We don't think about that. When we build something or we make something or we make an asset or we talk about a sales process and a team, what we don't do is we don't stop and say, how do the people that I'm selling to actually buy and actually looking for their stuff? Because if you're selling a widget and you don't know how the people that you're selling that widget to buy, how do you sell it? How do they think?
Jeff Lerner
Mm-hmm.
Chad
What do they look for? What's important to them? What's the power do they do? When they go to make that decision, why are they making that decision? There's a lot there there's so many things at our fingertip that you could buy, just like you mentioned, the $9 Costco joggers that's probably honestly probably made from the same material that the Lululemon's made from. 100%. But why do people go to stand in front of Lululemon to buy and spend $150 on it? It's it's it's not because they they said, we make something better. I mean, they'll tell you, yes, it's better and all that. And and and and and it and it may be. I I I don't know. I don't work there. But I have to believe that they've created, they've they've thought, what is gonna make these young people, these people come in here and spin this for it? It's it's they're playing on what they want and how they buy. That's the ones that win. And the ones that if you're out there and you're a company and you're starting and you're building all these processes, but you haven't thought about Who is my audience that's buying it? What do they buy? How do they buy it? What do they want? You're missing the boat.
Jeff Lerner
Yep. And and it goes back to, you know, a a saying that I use all the time, which is you can't be all things to all people. Right? And and that's what a lot of businesses, you know, they kind of start off hoping to, you know, cast this wide net and try to, you know, penetrate a particular market, but do so in a way that is extremely wide. And that's The opposite approach, you know, that that you need to take. It's really, like you said, understanding who your buyer is, why and how they make their purchasing decisions, and focusing everything you can specifically and strategically on that niche. And if you can do that and do that well and succeed in that, then you have an opportunity for expansion. But just trying to throw a wide net out there and be like, hey, we we did this thing, you should all come to us for it and you should, you know, is never gonna work because nothing you're saying is actually gonna resonate with the people who matter.
Chad
So true. So as we as we are getting kind of my man, I could talk to you for days. It's really, really interesting. It's fun. So I do want to talk about your book coming out. nobody knows what you do.
Jeff Lerner
Same.
Chad
Let's let's talk about it. T what what what if if I was going to buy this book, tell me what I'm gonna get out of it. What is it?
Jeff Lerner
Yeah, so the book is it's essentially a lot of what I've brought to startups and small organizations over the last, you know, fifteen, twenty years in terms of the thinking and the process behind a lot of what we talked about. And It's not a marketing book in the sense of, you know, it's not going to say, okay, step one, like create a Google Ads account. Step two, this is, you know, it's not a step-by-step guide of how to do marketing. It is a really kind of deep look at how to build a brand strategically, how to create differentiation in crowded markets, but more than just
Chad
Yeah.
Jeff Lerner
giving like a a you know a bunch of information about things you can do. Every chapter in the book has case studies that are tied to companies that most of us will know. And there's multiple case studies, you know, in every chapter. So like there's real world examples of how a company, you know, they they pivoted from X to Y and what they saw as a result of that. And then there's a set of of what I call, you know, founder questions or founder exercise in in every chapter.
Chad
No, it's good.
Jeff Lerner
And it's these are the questions that you should be asking after having read that chapter. Take this back to your leadership team, to your, you know, or your own internal thought process. And these are the questions you need to be asking that will really inform the direction of your company. And so it's in some ways, I feel like I'm probably giving away like a lot of my secret sauce in the book, but at the same time, it was. You know, I love seeing companies succeed, especially startups, right? That's where I spend my time. And if this can help them do that, you know, with a, you know, I don't know, $10 book, then great. you know, and so it it's it's detailed, it's got a lot of great information on, you know, on the proof points, right? Of look, when you do this, here's what can happen.
Chad
Absolutely.
Jeff Lerner
Here's the example from Slack, here's the example from, you know, Jira, here's an example from you know, whatever, Zoom, all these companies on how they built their brands and shifted their brands to meet and capture the demand.
Chad
That's great. When when will the book be out?
Jeff Lerner
I don't have a firm date, but it will be fall of this year.
Chad
man, well we'll have to definitely make sure that you guys this this sounds like some you know, I i I love what I love about what I'm hearing about this book and I think what what I think is really cool is is that it's it's practical. It's actually something you can take as an owner, as a startup, as a company that's a large company, and and really do some examining of where you are. And it kinda helps you so to speak, dig a little deeper than just having to sit in front of you and dig deeper. Like they can they can start really processing some of these things. And so it's a it's a I I say a how to, but it's it's it's a it's a it's a deep understanding of where you are and and you know, whether you do marketing or you do anything. I think it's a great book for even in business, like asking questions, like, you know, what what are we what are we doing here? and probably very helpful for those.
Jeff Lerner
Exactly. It's a lot of it it it it forces self-reflection, you know, and self meaning like the business, right? So asking of the business, whether it's the founder, the executive team, you know, but it's asking the questions of, okay, well, why you know, why do we say this instead of that? Or
Chad
I love that.
Jeff Lerner
If this happened, how would we solve for it? Like there's really specific, detailed questions that are intended to get the company as a whole to look at that and say, huh, we don't have a good answer to that. Or, you know what, our answer to that is. Perfect for what we're trying to do. Like we're we're in good shape here. Let's move on to the next thing. And so self-reflection is vital in how business businesses operate because if you're not looking at what you're doing, you're waiting for someone to tell you that. And A, that doesn't always happen. And B, if it you've gone to the point of waiting for someone externally to tell you where there's a gap in your business, it's probably a little bit too late.
Chad
Yeah. I I'll tell you and and and as we kind of end here and and th I mean this has been Jeff, this is great. I mean, really good stuff. And I I hope people that listen you're gonna hear some nuggets and kind of start challenging themselves. You know, as a consultant and as as you as well is what you do, one of the things I always want to leave with my with my customers or anybody is that if if my job didn't challenge you to think, to really process, then I didn't really do my job. If you if you've got a bunch of people around you that are telling you what you really want to hear, then then you're probably struggling a little bit or you're probably okay with just being the same. I think one thing being a business owner has taught me is that humility and being humble are like two different things. Like you you gotta you gotta you have to be willing to hear like and be okay with someone saying, hey, something's broken here. Doesn't mean you did a bad job. Does not mean that they're saying you are a terrible leader. That that that's not what we're saying. What we're saying is is like, cause because we're passionate. I think you're passionate. I'm very passionate about helping companies. And so when you look at some of these things, it's not your pointing finger saying you stink, you're terrible. It's, hey guys, here's things that we observe that can be better. Because nothing more, and I and I think I speak for you on this, is seeing people be successful, seeing their companies be successful. I get more joy out of that than a paycheck.
Jeff Lerner
One hundred percent. I agree. And and it's you know, it it's why for me the biggest risk I take with every client that I have when it when it makes sense to to have this conversation is when I tell a founder or a CEO that their opinion on things doesn't matter. And it's a risk when I tell them that, and they often get, you know, a little bit ticked off by it, but you know, I back it up with. Your opinion doesn't matter. What matters is the opinion of your audience, your buyers, the people you want to reach. So you saying, I want my logo to look this way, or my website to be this way, or you know, the name of my company to be this, well, that's great. But it doesn't matter if it's doing a disservice to what your ultimate goal is because you would rather me say to you, hey, look, your opinion doesn't matter and we're gonna make a lot of money, or I can say, your opinion is all that matters, but you're not gonna make any money. And when you kind of phrase it that way, a hundred percent of the time the CEO has said, All right, yeah, no, no, no, we'll we'll take the money. So, you know, yeah.
Chad
That's it.
Chad
Yeah. I yeah. I'd say it. Well, Jeff, thank you so much for being on today, man. What a what a great conversation. And and people out there can can get this on my YouTube channel, Stonefly Consulting podcast. Love for you guys to to hop on and listen and and and we'll be sharing some of this through some other social media outlooks. But just wanna thank you for being on, enjoyed my time with you and if people could how do they reach you?
Jeff Lerner
Yeah, they can visit my website, it's misnomer.co, or find me on LinkedIn and other social platforms.
Chad
Awesome. Well thank you for being on. Guys, as always, process over pressure. And then we'll stop right there. We'll cut it there and be done.
Chad
Stop recording here.
Subscribe
Get every article and episode in your inbox
No spam. Unsubscribe anytime.