Michelle Miller
President · Creativate
The 2020 Leap: Building a B2B Firm From Scratch During a Pandemic | Michelle Miller
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"a lot of the roadblocks that I perceived to be in my way from starting my company were roadblocks I was putting in my way.
Key Takeaways
- ◆Michelle started Creativate Aid in 2020 during the pandemic after years of fear held her back, she made a bare-minimum budget (mortgage, food, gas) and launched with just herself and a laptop, knowing she could always return to corporate if it failed.
- ◆Good sales and marketing actually takes time, companies severely underestimate what it takes to do it correctly, and patience is required to let strategy unfold through data-gathering, testing, and iteration.
- ◆Michelle worked with coach Christine Hockman on a 12-week mindset program to rewire limiting beliefs, she learned to ask 'what if it's better than I imagined?' instead of only fearing failure, comparing entrepreneurship to kayaking around a river corner toward the unknown.
- ◆One of the first hires Michelle made was an accounting firm, not a marketing person, she recognized immediately that doing her own taxes and payroll would waste hours and risk costly mistakes, so she outsourced it to focus on her core work.
- ◆Creativate Aid now has eight team members, all women, most of them working moms with young kids, the remote model allows them to get kids on and off the bus and attend school events, though Michelle never set out to build an all-female company.
- ◆Michelle tells clients they can't automate what isn't already documented, entrepreneurs often want AI or automation to solve everything at once, but you must first identify one specific area in your process to automate and then scale from there.
- ◆The biggest client misalignment Michelle sees is when the owner has a vision but brings in a hire and gives them tasks without aligning on the heart and passion behind the company, two different belief systems trying to create something rarely works without shared core values.
Frequently asked questions
What is a certified woman-owned business, and why did Michelle pursue that certification?
A certified woman-owned business is an official designation that recognizes companies owned and controlled by women, often opening doors to specific contracts and partnerships. Michelle didn't start with the intention of building a women-only firm, but when her team naturally evolved that way, all women, many working moms, she decided to lean into it. The certification formalized what had already become the company's identity and helped position Creativate Aid for opportunities that value diversity in their vendor relationships.
What exactly does Michelle mean by 'corporate therapy'?
Michelle uses 'corporate therapy' to describe the discovery process her team goes through with clients. They ask questions, listen deeply, and uncover problems the business owner often doesn't realize exist, like 25 different workarounds holding operations together or 10 team members each tracking the sales pipeline differently. It's about creating a safe space where clients feel heard and can acknowledge what's actually broken, not just what they think is working fine. The therapy metaphor captures both the listening component and the uncomfortable truth-telling that comes with it.
What is Super, and how does Michelle's team use it?
Super is a platform that allows consultants to deploy pre-built processes, systems, and objects into platforms like HubSpot. Michelle's team uses it specifically for industries like auctions, where they can install ready-made workflows instead of building everything from scratch. This is particularly useful when starting fresh with a client, as opposed to trying to retrofit or optimize a badly configured system that's already in place. It speeds up implementation and ensures the foundation is clean and intentional from day one.
How does Michelle's coaching-based model differ from traditional consulting?
Instead of parachuting in, delivering a strategy deck, and leaving, Michelle's team walks alongside clients through implementation and trains internal teams to sustain the work after they're gone. The goal is empowerment, not dependency, she wants clients to eventually outgrow her. This includes thorough documentation and knowledge transfer, so the systems don't fall apart when her team steps away. It's the opposite of consultants who build systems only they understand, leaving clients stuck when the engagement ends.
What mindset shift did Michelle make with her coach Christine Hockman that helped her start the business?
Working with Christine, Michelle learned to distinguish between real roadblocks and the ones her brain manufactured out of fear. Christine used a kayaking analogy: when you round a bend in the river, you don't know what's ahead, rapids, wildlife, drunk tubers, but that uncertainty is the thrill, not the threat. Michelle started asking 'What if this is better than I ever imagined?' instead of catastrophizing. That simple reframe, combined with practical steps like calculating bare-minimum expenses and consulting on the side first, gave her the confidence to make the leap in 2020.
Full transcript
Show
Chad
Hey, welcome back to Process Over Pressure, Chad Paris. My guest today is someone I've known for over five years, Michelle Miller, President and Founder of Creativate Aid, a B2B marketing strategy firm based out of Worcester, Ohio. And before we get into the story, I want to be straight with you. Michelle has been a friend of mine and helped me on several projects over the last three companies that I've been at. So this really isn't a cold interview. This is more of two friends sitting down and really talking about the job. And I think you guys will really enjoy that. Michelle has spent years manufacturing building products, roofing in concrete, winning awards, running real budgets, doing the corporate thing well. And then all of sudden in 2020, in the middle of the crazy pandemic, she walked away from all of it to build Creativate Aid from scratch. What I love about Michelle's story and why I wanted her on the show is that her whole philosophy is process over tactics. She's been... She has seen what's happened with small business throw money at marketing without strategy underneath it. And the parallel to what we talk about on this show every week, impossibles to miss. So today we're going to get into the leak, the lessons and the truth about building something real when nobody's watching. Michelle, welcome to the show.
Michelle Miller
Thank you so much for having me, Chad. That's a heck of an intro. I appreciate it. Excited to be here.
Chad
Absolutely. Well, I have been actually really, I had this circled. I've been looking forward to this, this interview because, because we have known each other and we've, we've had a relationship far as being friends and colleagues and actually worked on several projects together. And so, I know your heart and your work ethic and what you do personally. So I thought, man, wouldn't it be a fun to sit down with somebody you've known, most of these podcasts as people I've never met before. So this was fun to get to meet some, talk to somebody that I actually know.
Michelle Miller
Yeah, I know through the years, if I think I was thinking back on it too, as you were saying that and yeah, through the many companies you've been at and all of our, we've talked entrepreneurial dreaming types of conversations for years. So this is exciting to be sitting here today with you, watching you build your years as well. So kudos to you.
Chad
Well, thank you. It's fun and it's scary, all mixed up in one. No one tells you. There's no book out there that says, how to be an entrepreneur and what you're really going to feel. you know, they just don't talk about that in the business class, do they?
Michelle Miller
Right.
Michelle Miller
Yeah, well, know, the posts of you crying your eyes out, you as you go to sleep at night, those just, they don't have quite the same effect on LinkedIn as other ones might. So it's easy just to make LinkedIn turn into a highlight reel too of just all of the successes. And yeah, it's tough sometimes to be vulnerable and candid about what really happens and what's really going on. So thanks for opening the door and encouraging that level of authenticity and vulnerability.
Chad
Yes, I'd write.
Chad
Yeah, I think it's important. I think when we look at anybody out there that's starting something new and, you know, It's like anything it's, it's there's, there's, there's some good, there are ups and downs and there's some, you know, some scary times. know, I've talked to enough entrepreneurs to know that, you know, one of the things that, keeps a lot of people from doing it is fear. And maybe you could share when you, you know, leave in corporate America, you had a really good job. It's not like you didn't have a really good job. very well known, established, making good money and, you know,
Michelle Miller
Mm-hmm.
Chad
not only on top of that, we're in the middle of this pandemic that nobody knew what was going to happen. And he was like, well, you know what? I don't have enough pressure in my life. So let me just start a new business.
Michelle Miller
Yeah.
Michelle Miller
Right, I know, right? Like, I don't know if I'm insane or smarter somewhere in the middle. No, it's interesting. Fear is something that actually held me back from starting my company for years. So I kicked around the idea probably 2018 is when I really started to seriously consider it. So I'd gone back and I made a list of all these reasons for myself as to why I couldn't do it. Initially, it was I don't have enough experience in general. I was in my early 20s. No one will take me seriously. Then it was, I don't have my MBA, I need to go get my MBA. Then it was, don't, mean, there was like, just keep making the list. I don't know how I would process paying myself. I don't know how I do my accounting. I don't know how I'd pull an insurance policy. There were just all these like, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know. And oh, it's so risky. I have a mortgage. I'm a single female at the time supporting myself. Like, how am gonna do this? And so, and I started listening to podcasts as I was driving to and from work. Back in, this would have been 2019. had about a 45 minute commute right before the pandemic hit. And I used to listen to these entrepreneurial podcasts driving to and from work and thinking, you know, I got to do this someday. Like that, the drum started beating louder in my head of like, this isn't really an option anymore. This is something that I feel like I'm being called to do and pursue. And then the pandemic hit. So. There were just a lot of things that happened along the way. come from my family's entrepreneurs. My parents were in business together for years and years, which shout out to them. know not a lot of people would be capable of going into business with their spouse, but they did for years. And then they also had their own businesses too separately. it's like, and they're still married happily. Yeah. Crazy. Yeah. They just 40 years. Yeah. think, is it last year they celebrated for you? Something like that. So.
Chad
And they still like each other. Yeah, yeah, like that's all I'm about.
Michelle Miller
Yeah, but you asked the question about fear. So our brains are wired to be afraid and think of the worst possible outcome. I had to, I worked with Christine Hockman, who was my coach at the time. I did a 12 week program with her on mindset. And I really started to learn about fear and limiting beliefs. And I realized that a lot of the roadblocks that I perceived to be in my way from starting my company were roadblocks I was putting in my way. And that there were solutions to things and I could find them and I could figure it out. And so you just kind of dive in and you start doing, and I did, you start to figure things out. And here we are today, five years since I officially started the company, I started doing some consulting on the side while I was still full-time employed and then finally made the leap. But one of my favorite analogies that she gave me, she was like, do you like kayaking? I said, I love kayaking. She's like, have you ever kayaked down a river? I'm like, absolutely I've kayaked down a river, so fun. She's like, what do you love about that? And I said, well, it's when you come to the corner and you start to go around the corner and you start to think like, what could be around this corner? Are there rapids? Are there gonna be deer drinking water? Is it gonna be a bunch of drunk people partying in their inner tubes? I'm gonna have to try to navigate. We'll get a beer thrown at me. mean, what am I gonna be navigating here? I don't know, but that's the thrill of it. That's the fun of it. So it's like, when we start to look at fear that way of like,
Chad
Yeah.
Michelle Miller
Well, what if instead of everything fails, what if it's all better than you ever could have imagined? What if it's the most beautiful thing and the coolest experience you've ever had in your life versus just looking at it from a, what if it all falls apart and what if it's terrible, which is how we're wired to work.
Chad
That's so true. I always say, I have this kind of thought in myself is every roadblock or every obstacles, either a real roadblock or it's one that we have put in the way from our brain or thinking, right? It's either a real roadblock or it's one that we've imagined. And I think what I realize is we've all had roadblocks.
Michelle Miller
Mm-hmm.
Chad
But starting a company and starting that job, the words that come into my head is, it's not going to be successful. You're not going to make any money. You're going to go broke. You got to feed your family, all those things. And I have to really stop some days and have my quiet time and think, is that real roadblocks? Or is it roadblocks that my brain has put there? Because you're right. We're wired to always the negative. What if, what if. We love to know. If we all came into this world, could tell the future, we'd all be happy. But this is not reality.
Michelle Miller
Right. No, it's not reality. Another one of my big ones was, other people already out there doing that. There's not a market for this or my business. Well, five years later, we have eight people on our team. There's a market for what we do. You know, it's like there's all these reasons you can block that or tell yourself no. And it takes a long time to rewire those neural pathways in your brain. There's one shortcut. Yeah.
Chad
It does. So why Creativate Aid? How did you come up with that and what is it that you do? Why are you doing what you're doing?
Michelle Miller
Yeah, well, why Creativate? Michelle Miller Consulting felt a little boring as a name, so didn't do that. No, while Sarah's just... Creativate is create, cultivate, and innovate all smashed into one word. And I really, when I started it, I made a list of like, here's my bare minimum of what I need to survive. Here's what my mortgage is, here's what I need to pay for food.
Chad
Yeah. Yeah.
Michelle Miller
Here's why I need to put gas in my tank. I mean, was basic. was very, very bare bones. Like if it all falls apart, here's the bare minimum I need every month to survive. And so, um, I started with that. And what's so funny is one of my team members just asked me this question this last Friday too, of like, what did you think it would be five years from now that you're celebrating a five year anniversary? Thank you. Yes. Crazy. Um, but yeah, it's, was one of those things where you look at it you're like, I don't, I honestly, I didn't really know what I thought it was going to be five years.
Chad
Yeah, congratulations about five years.
Michelle Miller
I remember when I first graduated from college, I thought that my big goal for myself was to run a marketing department by the age of 40. Well, I ended up doing that by the time I was 24, 25. So I have a history of underestimating, I guess, what I'm capable of. So when I started, it truly was just a, I'm burdened out on corporate. I need to find a different path for myself. I'm gonna do something different. I'm gonna try it. It's very low risk. It was just me and my laptop.
Chad
Yeah.
Michelle Miller
And if it doesn't work, well then I can always go back and get another job in corporate and watch me slowly leave my body every day. But still, I can at least have enough money to cover my expenses.
Chad
I see it.
Chad
Yeah, that's so great. you're right. You're sitting here now, it's been five years, which I can't even believe it's been five years. It's like, where did the time go? I'm new to this and I'm sitting here going, what is it going to be like at the end of this month? I guess it's about as far as I can look because I can't even think about a year. So the fact that you've made it five years, like, know, I'm like, wow, like that's awesome.
Michelle Miller
while.
Chad
That's a big accomplishment. is a big accomplishment.
Michelle Miller
Yeah, we do annual planning now, which is like mind blowing, but we do. Yeah, we do annual planning because we've got, I mean, we, don't take it lightly. We've got a lot of, companies that rely on my team members for, you know, us to support their businesses and to support their families and their livelihoods. And, know, I, I got, I support my team too. So I don't take it lightly. So yeah, we do, we do annual planning and we want to make sure we're right size and we're ready to support our clients.
Chad
So how many you started with you, full tank of gas, belly full, and you hit it for your own. And now how many people do you have?
Michelle Miller
Yeah.
Michelle Miller
We have eight, including me. I started out slow. Last year was a big year. We, added four more people in the second half of last year. And that was, that was a big jump to make. Yeah, that was, that was a really big jump to make, but it was, it was exciting because it meant we added additional, not only just additional clients, but additional capabilities for existing clients too. So some of the skillsets that we added to our team really allowed us to. continue to level up, which I always want to be in an endless pursuit of optimizing and making things better and growing and integrating. So that really, that really helped.
Chad
Well, one of the things that, you know, I would be, I would miss the boat if I didn't talked about is that, you know, you are, you, you're a young female started her own company. Yeah. Very young female, very young. And yeah, you started, you started your own, you you started your own company. So, and, not only that, but your, your whole company is, is females. You're, you've built a, you've built a B2B business.
Michelle Miller
Young, thank you, Dad. Yes. Very good.
Chad
female owned and female employed and look that's something i know a lot of people shy away from talking about like you know i think that's awesome and i think something to be very proud of and know it's probably weird coming from a guy saying that but i think it's something to be very proud of because look Be honest, it's harder as a female. I'm not a female. You know it is. I'm just being honest. And so, you know, what was that like for you as a, you know, as a, as a female starting her own business, but not only that, but the employees that you have placed in that is all female. I think that's worth talking about. think that's really cool.
Michelle Miller
I appreciate you acknowledging it and saying it. I've always said too, was on a women at, it was back at Warren Rupp, I was on a women at Warren Rupp, which was a company I worked for, a committee. And I always was a big fan of, initially they were like, no, this is like a women's only thing. And I'm like, time out, we have to have male advocates in order for this to work. So I'm a big fan of like, let's just talk about it and everybody needs to be aware of it. So we are a certified woman owned business. I'm a hundred percent owner. So therefore it's a hundred percent female owned.
Chad
Yeah.
Michelle Miller
We have the Wee Bank, the national designation. Now we went through that process, but ultimately as the company started to grow, I realized the model of my business is a really great opportunity for women, especially to be working because we're all remote and a lot of the work that we do, I mean, we have meetings and things like that, but you can kind of control more of your own schedule. So we have a good chunk of our team is working moms, a lot of them with young kids. So they're able to get their kids on the bus and go get them off the bus at the end of the day. And they can be there and they can go to the school programs and go to the school events, which is really funny that I ended up building a business that's very like mom friendly, considering I'm not one dog mom. Sorry, Gus. Dog mom's a little different than raising the humans. yeah, some days.
Chad
That's all.
Chad
You're a dog mom, that's just a mom.
Chad
Yeah.
Michelle Miller
is kind of funny to me that that's, that's the direction that the business went. And it certainly wasn't intentional. I did not make any decision at any point to say this is going to be an only female company. but it truly was just as we were looking to hire and expand. And I would ask my team where did, you do you know of anyone that would be a good fit for this company? Have you worked with anyone before? Is there anyone that you would love to work with? The candidates that came forward and were recommended were all female. So that's just how, that's just how it is. I'm sure it won't be that way forever.
Chad
Yeah.
Michelle Miller
but that's where we are right now, but I view it as a really cool, opportunity because it was also funny too, is I've only worked mainly on male teams. I've only mainly worked with men in this industry. And so then to suddenly be building a, and I also, I also never worked for an agency full time either. So now I'm building a sales and marketing enablement firm, historically male-nominated space. having never worked full time at.
Chad
Yeah.
Michelle Miller
a firm like this and never working with all females. but we do have, we have a bunch of high performers. There's kind of no BS. No, it's a bunch of people who are women who are committed to getting things done. And so it's definitely unique. It's a unique group of women too though. So yeah.
Chad
Yeah, I've had the privilege of meeting some of them, most of them. They are, they're very good at what they do. So you have put together a really good staff. You know, I know this, that when you look in at companies that you are starting to do work with or trying to do business with, or maybe you're evaluating or they're evaluating you.
Michelle Miller
Okay.
Chad
What has been a theme, you may have think about this a minute, a theme in business that you've come across that maybe you could say these one or two things that have been a common theme that business owners often miss are blind to, that they're like, oh wow, these are common traits that I see. Has there been one or two of those things that you've run across?
Michelle Miller
That is a really good question. I would say when we are talking to, you and I were talking about this a little bit beforehand. Initially, when you start your business, it's kind of, you don't really know what the theme is going to be. So you just start working with, if you've got cash, we'll work with you. And then there's the change and iterate more into a, Hey, here's where my sweet spots are. Here's where the companies are that are most ideal client or ICPs, where we do ideal client profiles.
Chad
Yeah. Yeah.
Michelle Miller
So I can start to tell much earlier on when I'm talking with companies, if they're going to be a good fit for working with us or not. And a lot of times we'll start out with a project or something like that to see if that's the case. But I think it kind of depends on whether there's a couple of variables. If they have a history of doing any type of intentional and deliberate marketing, not by accident, not someone kind of sitting off to the side or someone's kid running their socials. Have they intentionally and deliberately pursued a sales and marketing strategy before? And then do they have the resources internally to support that? So I think one of the themes that I see the most is people severely underestimate what it takes to correctly do sales and marketing. It's a faucet you just get to turn on. You can't throw money at Google and your results will just pop up. mean, that's just not how the world works. So I think that's one of the things that I usually see. And then the other thing too is
Chad
yes.
Michelle Miller
They'll invest in working with us, but especially because we work with a lot of more entrepreneurial businesses. We all want it. We want it now. We want it yesterday. And some of these things, they just take time. There's no way around it. takes time to gather data. It takes time to trial and error and test things. So then it's the patience to see the strategy unfold is the other theme that I see across business owners that we work with. It's just, it just. Good marketing takes time. That's one of my little phrases I say all the time. Good sales and marketing actually, it just takes time.
Chad
You know, it's so funny you brought those two things up because I of course didn't plan to ask me, I didn't plan for you to tell me that. just, you I was asking. Being a former executive in businesses and having you help us in some other opportunities and then now being a consultant where I'm out actually talking to business owners and people and really trying to dive. Because they're all, you my thought was they're all going to be different. They're not. What I find is, is that there's a couple things that I notice. One being a lot of the smaller entrepreneur businesses, there's not a, you know, they don't have, you know, maybe there are 10 or less people in their business. You have an owner who has a vision of what he wants or what he believes in the company to look like. And he knows where he wants to go or she knows where they want to go. They just don't know how to get there. so typically they've hired a person, pay them a good bit of money to come in and then that person comes in and they give them tasks to do. then somewhere along the line, it's like they're way over here and the owner's over here and they're not aligned and it kind of changes. And so you see some, a lot of changes in their director levels and things like that. And so I see that happen a lot and I'm sure you have too. You probably know exactly what I'm talking about.
Michelle Miller
Mm-hmm.
Michelle Miller
Mm-hmm.
Chad
And I tell new business owners or business owners, people all the time is my motto is, is you have to know what it is that you want to accomplish in your heart. Like you've got to spend some time with that. And that's part of the coaching, like developing on to think about, okay, what do I want it to look like in five years? It may not be exact. It may not be exact. It may be some changes, but you have a good idea. Then build your, your, your kind of your marketing and playbook to that rather than bringing somebody in and saying,
Michelle Miller
Mm-hmm.
Chad
Okay, here's my heart and my passion. want you to go create it for me because there are two different belief systems trying to congrade something. And I'm sure you've experienced that. And I just see that a lot.
Michelle Miller
Yes.
Michelle Miller
absolutely. I talk with my clients about this all the time. Actually, I've talked with, think three at this point in the last two weeks about what you just said. it's, it's as entrepreneurs and business owners, you see what it could be. And then you want to put together a realistic path to get there. But sometimes it's like, you think it could be something, you know, huge and the rest of the team is like, well, time out, we have to be realistic about what it's going to be. And the owner is already out here, you know, way out ahead. And you have to get the team on board too, to help execute it and bring it along. And it's, it's, it's where you actually, I don't want a whole team of mini Michelle's running around working at Creativate. I want people that are going to view the world a little differently than I do and challenge me sometimes and hold my feet to the fire on discipline and process and accountability and things like that. So, but you also have to have people who at the core, they have a heart for what they're doing. They have a passion for it. Our passion, is, I view what I do, it is an honor. It is a privilege to serve our clients the way we do every day. It is a huge responsibility. And if our team members don't understand that it is an honor and a privilege to get to be able to do what we do every day, that their core, they're not a good fit for the team. But when you're all operating from that same mindset, then you can have those really intense conversations and those really deep discussions where you sometimes butt heads because. But you know, at the end of the day, you're all on the same train going in the same direction. You're not going in all different directions.
Chad
Yeah, I agree with you. told one of my clients that said, listen, you know, I think of your company, I care about your company as much as you care about it. Cause you being successful means that I did my job. And so when you, when you engage with a consultant like you or myself, you need to, you need to make sure you're looking for people that have that value because
Michelle Miller
Mm-hmm.
Chad
There is a lot of consultants and lot of people that just, they do, they just want to be paid. and get whatever the task is when we get it done, you got done, you're checked off. And I think that companies are missing it when they don't find the people that like really take it into themselves to say, man, helping you grow is something, that's the part that I loved as an executive that, and one of reasons why I got out of it is I love to help companies grow. I love to see them be successful. Like that is the most rewarding thing. I think that's my gift to be able to give us to see people like. companies grow and have that success. Like I love it. I think that's like just so rewarding to me. And I think that's to me is the right mindset that you should be looking for when you're thinking about somebody to bring on like yourself onto the team is like, what is your passion for this project? Like, is it a project that you have passion for or is it just like, yeah, I'm just kind of here. I'm going to go through the motion.
Michelle Miller
Mm-hmm.
Michelle Miller
And that's where I'm really grateful for my upbringing because with my parents being entrepreneurs, all I knew was a business owner-like mentality. So even when I worked in corporate, I was still approaching every single one of those roles I had. Every budget I was given, every dollar I intended to spend, I treated it as if it was mine, as if it was my business and it was my decision to make. But yeah, there's a phrase out there, your vibe attracts your tribe. So you got to find your tribe that rides on your vibe, that type of thing.
Chad
All right. Yeah. Yeah. You know, so, Michelle, just cause you know, we have people maybe that's listening to the show and they're like, you know, I could use some help, but I don't really know what a consultant does. Like, I don't even, I don't even know what that is. Like, cause you know, we all think of the word consultant, like, I mean, let's be honest. Everybody thinks consulting to think money. it's going to cost me money. That's all they think about. Like I always going to be expensive.
Chad
And in some cases it could be true depending on who you hire, right? Because there is people that's going to be way, way expensive. But for somebody out there that may be listening is like, you know, I know I need some help, but I just don't know how to get there or engage. What would you tell them?
Michelle Miller
Need some help like they're looking to bring someone into their company or need some help like I want to get started with my company.
Chad
Well, they're no, they're an entrepreneur and they're they have a company today and they're like, I know I need some work or some help. We don't because as an owner, you can get to a place where you're so overwhelmed that you are absolutely like, like you can't even move forward because you're so overwhelmed with stuff. And I think there's people that sitting there. like there's two options, right? One is you ask for some help and you get maybe a consultant to help you.
Michelle Miller
Got it.
Michelle Miller
Yes.
Chad
Or the other is you just give up and quit and move, go back to work and just, just let it go. Um, because when we are owners, we think about every dollar that I spend outside of that is dollars that I'm going to lose for my business. And I think that's a really bad way to think about it because a lot of people do that and you got to know what you're investing in. That, that's what I wanted you to talk about that.
Michelle Miller
that.
Michelle Miller
Yes. Okay. Got it. Yep. Okay. So, and one of the first things I did was hire the first firm I hired for myself at my business was an accounting firm because I learned very, very quickly that me going into the state of Ohio to pay taxes or whatever, forget it. Like I'm not doing that. Now we have workers comp and we have payroll, we have a million things. And so I very quickly realized that was something I could spend hours doing, rip my hair out, do it all wrong. and then have to pay fines and things like that. So I said, forget it, I'm hiring an accounting firm. So was one of the first moves I made for myself. And then if you look at, especially if you're looking at, if you're an entrepreneur in the seat that you just mentioned too, there's also the cost of inaction. know, assuming, I forgot who said the quote, doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results is the definition of insanity. you know, if you're like, if you feel like you've exhausted all the options and you're still not getting anywhere, then you gotta do something different.
Chad
Absolutely.
Michelle Miller
And I think too, especially the word consultant is kind of a dirty word. I've personally, I've kind of stayed away from it. Now we have a team, so we're more of a, I call us a firm because even the word agency sometimes can have a dirty word to it or dirty connotation to it. So, so I think a lot of it is looking at being realistic too, about the time and energy that you truly have and the resources that you have either as an entrepreneur or someone on your team to get it, dedicate towards it. Sales and marketing is not a quick thing. It's not an easy thing. And my gosh, is it changing fast, especially with AI and technology changes and everything that we have going on right now. So it's one of those things you can't kind of half heartedly do and expect to see amazing results. The odds of going viral if you have a consumer product and are influenced, it's just so small. You have to have a really intentional and deliberate strategy. And then you also have to be realistic. So you got to find someone who aligns with that. Like we know exactly now who our ideal client profiles are for my company. because we've been through that iterations. I've worked with some companies that are not a good fit and seen what happens there. So find someone who's a good fit for your company. And just because someone recommends them doesn't mean they're going to be a good fit for your company too. And then the other thing too is try it out. Try a project. What's the worst that happens? It doesn't go well and then you don't have to work together for forever. Don't go sign like a three year or five year agreement or something like that. Try it out. See if it's a good fit. Sometimes you can have two really talented people working together, but their personalities just clash. and then nothing gets done. So find someone who's a good fit for you and understands the direction of your company. And you really feel like can be a partner to help get you there. And what if it's better than you ever imagined? What if it doesn't all fall apart?
Chad
Yeah, no.
Chad
Yeah, I think that's great advice for people that are listening. And I think, know, it's just sometimes, you know, as we look at different scenarios, they're all different. know, all companies are built differently. They all have the different belief systems. They all have the way they function, and they are. But there are some commonalities of some problems that you see across. you talked a little bit about marketing, and I think marketing is one of the most misunderstood. components of a business. A lot of people just, it's a, it's a great tagline. and we're in an age today where, you have the phone and, and, and you see people that, know, there's more people trying to become rich off of being an influence on Instagram, to get somebody to pay them $25 because they mentioned their product than there ever has been before. And so, you know, the noise for the consumer trying to buy your services or your product is busier than it ever has been. And so you really got to think about how you marketing and it is a, tell people all time and you do too, it's a long play. Marketing is a play, a long play. It's not a quick fix. If you're doing something for quick fix, it's kind of like anything. It's going to go up and down. It's going to fizzle out. Would you agree?
Michelle Miller
Yep. A hundred percent. And the other thing too, if anyone's listening to me on other podcasts before, can never make it through a podcast or talk without talking about authenticity. So don't put noise out there. and just because, just because you have a quoted and meet up social posts or blog posts, if it's not going to be quality, forget it. We are getting so inundated now with people using AI just to write, write, write, write, write, write, write more, more, content, more, more, more, more, more. And so when we find something that's really deep and real and meaningful. Um, it resonates so much more. And I think that's why we're seeing the rise of some more traditional marketing efforts. mean, in-person experiences are on the rise this year. Um, we just actually, I just saw this weekend, someone is doing an event in Europe where it is a no phone zone. They're calling it like a 1990s experience or something. forget what it is, but you drop your phone at the door. There's a live band, there's games you can play. There's a reading area. There's like a quiet area. It's a big venue and you pay to go there for four hours and it's technology free. Like that is where we're trending because I think we're just getting so blown up with too much noise, too many messages, too much stuff. So more about quality, less about quantity.
Chad
I'm out.
Chad
I agree. think that's really cool because it's true. think we get, I'll be honest, I do AI automation all the time and I tell my clients, I sell it. I mean, that's what I do. And I tell them all the times like, hey, listen. AI is not for everybody. And AI will tell you that it is for everybody. But you have to understand what you're, and I only use that because it's becoming the next noise. Like there's more ads out for AI than there's ever been before. Everybody's there. There's a new program, there's a new tactic, there's a new this constantly flowing. And I tell people all the time, you have to look at...
Michelle Miller
Yep.
Chad
just like putting the phone down for the four hour, like you just mentioned, you have to stop the noise and you got to think about what is it that I do? Can it fit within me, in my company? Because if it can't, don't try to plug it in. Don't try to put something in there that doesn't work. That's not what you want to do. You want to think about what is it? And I say this almost every time I do one of these shows. I say, think about AI like this. If there is a tool, that we can put in your hands that gives you more time back to do the things that you're really good at or you really enjoy. That's a great place to start. That's a great place to start. If you at the end of the week and you go, you know what, I got four hours back and I was able to enjoy my kids. I was able to go spend time with, you know, loved ones or friends. I was able to time to go to the river and fish. was able to go, you know, whatever that is, if, if it gave you that back, it was a great investment because you cannot get enough time.
Michelle Miller
Mm-hmm.
Michelle Miller
Right. Time's the one thing we can't make more of. That's so yeah, how can you use it as wisely as you can? But I think the AI piece of it too is understanding it's not a lot of entrepreneurs. They want it to go in and just do everything. You think it's going to do everything and it's not. You have to find one very specific area in your process that you can automate. And then you can start to grow and scale it, but it's not something you're just going to come in and just broad sweep. implement. That's a terrible idea actually and a good recipe for failure.
Chad
think it's, I mentioned the reason I mentioned the two, we talked about marketing, talked about AI, and my belief, and you tell me if I'm wrong, I believe they both parallel each other very well. And that you have to build it on a great foundation. You can't, you can't go right now and use this as an example, an, what I mean by that for people listening. If you went on today and you bought meta, you know, meta ads and you were throwing $250 to generate more leads. and you did that today, you would get a bunch of noise. You wouldn't get true lead. You wouldn't get what you would want out of it. So you just get a lot of money to try to get something very quickly. Not going to work for you. Same thing with AI and marketing. Once you build that foundation, you can always add as you process through it, but get really good at what you are and how you do it with your AI or your marketing and work those things at the same level and then grow them. as you develop that skill, start to see, this is working, know, this is moving. That's why I always say, I think they parallel very well because everybody's thinking about, want to implement this today to get like way beyond reality of what they can get out.
Michelle Miller
Mm-hmm. And when you and I were talking to you before we started recording about you can't automate something that's not already documented. So if you don't already have your processes documented, you can't go through and automate them. being realistic, back to being realistic, it's tough as entrepreneurs to pull our heads out of the cloud sometime and be like, all right, here's where we're at today. Here's the reality. It's back to basics on all of these things. And then not losing the human connection through all of it. There's still it. The noise that's out there now just creates even greater opportunities for companies that really understand what human connection looks like. And those are the companies that I think are going to do the best. They can still have tons of AI and automations in place on the backend, but not missing those touch points where human connection can bring value is going to be huge.
Chad
Yeah. And I know you do this too. And, and cause I've done it with you is discovery calls. And it's always interesting. You do the discovery calls. do them as well. And what I have learned in those discovery calls is that I have to do the, it's almost like being a counselor. I have to pull out the nuggets, understand where the problem is. Right. Because oftentimes you sit in those discovery calls and you're having it with someone and you're like, they're like, yeah, we run very well. And then you talk to. I'm just using this name as an example, Nancy, who works two stores down, you're like, that's a terrible process. It doesn't work. They don't often know where the, if they have really high performing people that work for them, they overcome the gaps. They overcome the problems. They just do a workaround. And then before you know it, you've got a company built off 25 different workarounds to make it work because that's what people are designed to do. You hire them to bring them in and they, I don't care what you got to You fix it, make it happen. And so the entrepreneur, the owner of the company, they're already so far down the road that they don't even know what's broken. And so when you ask that question, they're like, I don't think anything's broken. then they go, says, so I always tell them we should spend some time talking to the entire team about specific job duties that they have before you do that, because they don't know. They don't know.
Michelle Miller
Mm-hmm. That's so funny you said counselor, because I jokingly said we're corporate therapists. Because a lot of times when you go and you start asking these questions, you're starting to peel back layers of onion and you're finding things that people didn't even know were a problem. And as you start to do these interviews, you start to talk to people, even if it's something very, very simple, like give me your documented sales pipeline. I mean, those types of things, you'll find out that your 10 team members are all had their 10 variations.
Chad
We are!
Michelle Miller
of a sales pipeline and how they look at it. And then you have to have some serious conversations about making sure it's cleaned up and documented. So again, it's like back to that mindset piece. It's about looking at it, not as like everything's broken, it's all going wrong. It's more, look, I hired people who are problem solvers and doers. There's a lot of wonderful things that come with that. Unfortunately though, sometimes that means now I got 10 Cowboys in the wild wild west all going 10 different directions. So I got to wrangle them again. And this is an opportunity for us to... formalize this process that will empower us to go and scale again, which is really exciting. So rather than looking at it as like, it's all broken, it's all, these are opportunities we have to have presented themselves for us to fix, to empower us all to be better at what we do and serve our clients better at the end of the day.
Chad
Yeah, it's so crazy to me and I've been on both sides of it now. mean, I'll tell you, being a corporate American and working, you're not working on projects where you have people above you or people that they won't report today. Like they want them today or yesterday. And they've gotten it to a point where they've kind of neglected
Michelle Miller
Yeah, yesterday.
Chad
the last four years of stuff until they like, okay, now I wanted to report. And it's like, you know, there's so many parts and pieces that have to be built out. And if you don't build those parts and pieces out correctly, you know, an example, I don't care if it's a CRM, I don't care if it's a marketing tool, I don't care if it's an AI automation. If the foundation is not properly put together, It doesn't matter what you keep, you just lay it. All you're doing is layering more problems onto things without really getting the foundation built.
Michelle Miller
That's a biblical principle too. A house built on sand will fall. You want to build it a solid foundation. Sometimes it's not fun. It takes time. It takes discipline to lay a strong foundation, but it will be, it might be painful, but at the end of the day, so glad you took the time to do it the right way. The first time versus sledding later. Yeah.
Chad
Yeah, so good. Well, Michelle, for those that are, know, I really appreciate we're getting close to our time. Can't believe it. Sorry. It's been like 45 minutes. It's kind of going by fast. But this has been really good and I really enjoyed you coming on. But for people out there that are listening that may, you know, maybe, you know, looking to have somebody help them, you know, reaching out to you, what would you
Michelle Miller
Okay, crazy.
Chad
Would you tell them, how can we get a hold of Michelle, who you are, how we get a hold of you, all that fun stuff.
Michelle Miller
Yeah. So if you're looking for a company to help you with your, we call it sales and marketing enablement. So making sure that your sales and marketing strategies are aligned and getting you towards your growth goals, then we're a good company for you. So it could be, could be HubSpot and CRM implementations. could be graphic design, could be trade shows, could be marketing planning and strategy. Might we have a really talented team so we can pull in the best and the brightest to help support you and get you to your goals. If you go to growwithcreativate.com, that's our website. If you want to go check us out, we're also pretty active on LinkedIn. And then you can also connect with me on LinkedIn. That's another good way to get a hold of me. Michelle Miller, doesn't really narrow it down, but it's Miller MK. That's an easier way to find you through my handle.
Chad
You it. Michelle, thank you. people may be going like, Chad, don't you own a consulting company? Now you've got somebody who does consulting on here. Yeah. But isn't that funny? Because this is the way I've known you and myself too. I'm not to be all in and all for everything. And I think it's important to align your theories with people that you believe in. And I believe in Michelle and what she's doing. And I know who she is as a person.
Michelle Miller
Hey, John, what do you do? What you doing?
Chad
I'm not afraid. don't, I don't think we really do a lot of the stuff. It's the same. But we probably work well together on different avenues that we're probably got expertise in. And so I wanted to have Michelle on here because, I don't, I don't look at her as a competition. I look at her as a friend who, who's known the business, who's been around the business, but also, you know,
Michelle Miller
Absolutely.
Chad
It's a big, big world. and I think if you're really doing it for the right reasons, you're trying to help companies. If you really want to help companies, you're willing to have these kinds of partnerships like we have. So you can have these conversations because, um, just like a therapist, I'm going go back to the therapist. You, you know, you know, they only tell you if I, if you don't know this, this is a little nugget for all of you out there. If you don't go to a counselor or a therapist, it does have, has their own therapist. need to fire them because every good therapist has their own therapist. And that's the truth.
Michelle Miller
True. It's true.
Chad
Guys, thank you so much for being on today. It's been an awesome show. Again, Chad Paris Stonefly Consulting. You can check me out on my website at stoneflyconsulting.com. Thanks, have a great day. And then we'll cut it there. Did you like it?
Michelle Miller
Thanks, Chad. Thank you so much for having me on. This was fun. This is a really quick 42 minutes. Yeah. Sorry. My phone dinged right there at the end. Whoops.
Chad
that's all right. Well, did you, did you feel like you got enough, you know, some good content nuggets in there for you and all that stuff?
Michelle Miller
my gosh, I feel like we just got the conversation started. we have so much. Podcasts are always interesting too, because I'm so much of a like reactionary dialogue kind of person. So I have to, cause it's mostly, you know, audio, I really have to like hold myself back of like doing ah-has and yeses and things like that. So I'm just, I have to be like a slightly more restrained version of myself on podcasts.
Chad
Yeah.
Chad
Yeah, well that was fun. And what I'll do is I'll get you the raw footage you can use in your marketing and then I'll tag it on the end and it'll go up on my, I'll have my little virtual assistant help me get it all broke down and put on the social, you know, YouTube.
Michelle Miller
Amazing. well, Isabelle on my team is helping with all of that. So I'll get her and have her do all of it. Yeah. Wonderful. Thank you. I need to send a note to, I'm going to send a note to the Dudleys. I'm still reeling over what a small world is so, so crazy.
Chad
Okay. Perfect. Well, thank you.
Chad
Please do. Please do. I'd love to work with them if they can do something. told him, I don't know what they're, he had mentioned they just some like workflow stuff, but I don't know what they're.
Michelle Miller
yes, we tried to implement HubSpot with them. well, they had HubSpot. We tried to optimize it because HubSpot way oversold them. So we tried to scale it back and optimize it, but it just, they just couldn't get it. Like populating correctly and use it like they, yeah, they need help. And they just opened their office in Indy too. I don't know if you talked about that.
Chad
I wonder... I if something like Go High Level would be better for them.
Michelle Miller
They just need, there's, there's a lot of things they need. The auction industry is high level could be a good one for them. The auction industry is tough. Well, in quick return and burn, like HubSpot still has a lot of like robust setup. And so we now have, like, if they would have come to us fresh without a HubSpot already set up, we've started using Super to start deploy already auction built like processes and systems and, and, properties and objects and things like that.
Chad
easier.
Michelle Miller
But the problem is that there's had already been built before. And then we were trying to jump in and like, kind of tweak it around. And then since they already had a subscription, we were really limited on what we could actually do with it. So it was just, it was tough. We tried, we really did try, but yeah.
Chad
That's hard, that's so hard. Yeah, reach out to them, tell them that they got the video there. It was good. was fun. It feels good.
Michelle Miller
I can't wait to watch it.
Chad
All right, thanks.
Michelle Miller
Awesome. Thanks, Chad. I'll talk to you soon. Congrats on your first big win, by the way. Go celebrate. I'll talk to you soon. See you. Bye.
Chad
Thank you very much.
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