Marc Rust
Consequently Creative
The $12 Ice Cream Secret: Why People Buy Emotion Over Logic | Marc Rust
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"No longer being about potentially being part of a machine that's killing people, but now being part of a solution that is allowing leaders and leadership to make far more tactical decisions at the at the right time by communicating to each other effectively.
Key Takeaways
- ◆Marc uses a hierarchy of value pyramid with function at the base, then culture, style, and newness at the top, explaining why customers often choose products on emotional factors that aren't about performance.
- ◆A $12 ice cream pint outsells a $5 one not because of the product itself, but because the packaging and story convey organic milk, hand-churning, naturally sourced ingredients, and the maker's family history, giving buyers emotional reasons to believe in the higher price.
- ◆When a drone software company discovered that 80 percent of their sales went to defense contractors while most employees were anti-war, running internal workshops uncovered that their software actually reduced boots on the ground and saved young lives through tactical warfare, which realigned employee purpose and unlocked sales growth.
- ◆Companies claiming great customer service as their differentiator are repeating table stakes that every competitor also claims, so the real branding work is digging deeper to find what makes you uniquely valuable beyond the product itself, like how benches outside a coffee shop create a gathering moment that makes the coffee itself taste better.
- ◆Ranking number one on Google for best ice cream captures clicks but loses the sale if your landing page has no story about how it's made, where it comes from, or why it tastes better, meaning you opened the loop but didn't close it.
- ◆Marc's first expensive mistake was starting an LLC and hiring a pro bono logo designer and printing business cards before he had a single client or product, when he should have found his first client first, then built the company around actual revenue.
- ◆Hire advisors and partners who will challenge you and give you hard answers, not people who just agree with you, because that's what makes you better.
Full transcript
Show
Chad Paris
You ever walk into a $300 million company's website and have absolutely no idea what they do? Well, Marc Rust has, and it drives him crazy. Because he knows what the beneath the pretty colors and the catchy taglines that mean nothing. There's a deeper problem. One that costs business millions and bleeding talent. They can't afford to lose. Marc runs a branding agency that works exclusively with private equity firms and their portfolio companies, as he's seen it all. The tight suited MBA grads who likely think a Fiverr logo and a chat GPT tagline will fix acquisition turbulence. The CEO who signs off on messaging that sounds clever but says nothing. The company's hemorrhaging sales because nobody inside can agree on what they actually stand for. Today, we're pulling back the curtain on what really happens post acquisition. Why every moment matters is a piece of crap headline and how Marc helped a drone software company go from Culture disaster to sell through the roof by getting one thing right, alignment. This is Process Over Pressure. Let's go. What's up, everybody? I'm Chad Paris, and this is Process Over Pressure, the podcast where we skip the highlight reel and get into the scars, the wounds, and the real stories behind building and fixing business. I spent 15 plus years as an executive leading companies and walked away to start Stonefire Consulting, where I help businesses, especially PE back ones, fix their broken process. And build systems that actually work. This show is for founders, operators, and anyone who's tired of Instagram fairy tale versions of entrepreneurship. We're here for the organic, unfiltered truth about what it really takes. If you want the glossy version, this isn't your show. But if you want to hear from people who've been in the trenches and live to tell about it, well, you're in the right place. So let's get to work. My guest today is Marc Rust founder of Consequently Creative. A branding agency that works exclusively with the private equity firms and their portfolio companies. Marc's not interested in working with tight suited NBA grads, so you think he knows everything. He can spot those guys a mile away and avoid them like the plague. Instead, he works for PE owners who understand that the game has changed, that you can't just buy a company, trim the fat, and flip it anymore. Marc's team steps in post acquisition, do something most firms completely overlook. They help companies figure out.
Chad Paris
Well, who are you and what you stand for? And how do you get everyone from the C suite to the sales floor? Marching the same drone. He helped turn around a drone software company with a shot culture called Out Three Hundred Million Dollar Business for having websites that say absolutely nothing. And he's on a mission to prove the alignment isn't some fluffy concept and the difference between stagnant growth and scales through the roof. Marc's based in Boston, but grew up spending some time in Alabama. He's got the stories for days. Let's bring him in. Marc, welcome to the show.
Marc Rust
Thanks so much for having me, Chad. That was one hell of an intro. Fantastic. If there's one thing you're really good at, it's those intros. There's nothing else to say. I think we're done, right? You said everything.
Chad Paris
Man, I
Chad Paris
Shut the door is what I say, right? Why else?
Marc Rust
Thanks for having me on. It's really a pleasure to be here and and get to know you and and hopefully provide some great insight to your audience.
Chad Paris
Yeah, man, it's such a pleasure to have you on. And and and it's it's interesting. When we first met, you know, a lot of what you do and what I've done in my history it aligns very well. So I think we we'll have some great conversations for our listeners today that'll be more than just you know, fluffy stories. We'll get some real fun and tell some real real life stories. So you know, we're we're gonna start right here. This is I think this this is is so true, and I think it it we align on it, you know.
Marc Rust
Absolutely.
Chad Paris
When we first were were were kind of talking, you you you said, Hey, you tell me about a pre-call, you know, kinda was talking about that and you was like, Hey, I can smell a tight suited MBA a mile away. And I thought, you know, let's just start there. Let's just go right for the gut juggler here. Well let's talk about that. Let's talk about that. And and because it's true, it's what happens, right? You get a lot of people being counting, looking at numbers and they want to buy this company and and and they're pay, you know, they brilliant They're they're smart as they can be and I get that, but when you really get into the weeds, sometimes that that real authenticity matters.
Marc Rust
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, you know, I I think that business it's difficult to make business cookie cutter. You can't just go through the motions. You can't just say, hey, you know, okay, what do I need for a business? Well, I need a plan, I need a logo, and I need you know, I need a location, I need a storefront, whatever, right? yeah, that's what you need, but how are you gonna back that up with authenticity? How are you gonna come across with value? you know, and and and you need to kind of dig deeper. And what I mean by that is that, you know, people choose businesses not just on the need. They choose on because of a variety of factors that often they can't even explain. I mean, when you go buy a car, are you really buying the best, most secure car? Or are you buying the car that you just actually have a sweet spot for? You love the color, you love the feel, et cetera.
Chad Paris
Yeah, yeah.
Marc Rust
You know, I would say it's more about the feel in a car than it is about the performance, right? so so so those there there there's a list of psychosomatic things that people appeal to. That and they choose products because it appeals to them on a deeper level, deeper emotions. There's something about it you can't explain. And it is
Chad Paris
Absolutely.
Marc Rust
bad for a business to overlook that and say, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. People are gonna love it. They're gonna get it, you know. there's reasons why people choose things. And and and and you can if you strive to constantly be better at it, you'll get there.
Chad Paris
I agree.
Chad Paris
I mean, you know, and I and I get it. Look, I'm I get it on the and I'm not anti PE back. So so don't that's not I don't Marc isn't either. We're not we're not bashing PE firms. I think they're fantastic. That's not that's not what we're trying to do here. But what we are talking about is some some things that's and not necessarily with PE back firms, but it's it's re it's the reality of what happens inside businesses. When when you when you're in a business and you have that business, you're you're you're thinking about strategically down the road, right?
Marc Rust
No, not at all.
Marc Rust
Mm-hmm.
Chad Paris
And and and you know, whether you're buying that business or whether you're it is your own business and you've built it as an entrepreneur from bottom up, and you're thinking about, hey, what's the next step for me? Am I gonna sell this? What am I gonna do? Very often, and and and there's a lot of things that get missed, but but who they are, the website, all those things. I mean, listen, how many websites, Marc, do you look at? We've done this exercise together that you look at that and go, Well, I don't even know what they do. And we're gonna talk more about one of those actuals that you that you had, but this is reality.
Marc Rust
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, the thing is that clever headlines will never beat clear headlines, you know? But the pro the problem with that is that clever sounds is fun. It sounds fun to have some something clever, use cool words and whatever. or it it it might feel like you're checking off all the boxes, but at the end of the day, it's not about you. It's not about how you feel as a business owner, it's about your audience.
Chad Paris
Yeah, it's good.
Marc Rust
and how your audience doesn't feel but relates to you, right? I mean, there's so many companies out there that say, you know, we strive for the best quality and outcomes every day. That's great, but it doesn't mean anything. You know, just stop saying that, you know.
Chad Paris
Yeah. It's a great catchline. Yeah.
Chad Paris
I had a i i and to go along like I had a I had a company that that I mean I'm not gonna say their name, but they had reached out and they were they were they were talking about, you know, they're they're running some ads and they're they're trying to get some things going and and they're having people, you know, they're having people go into their ad this is real world stuff here, people. So if you're listening like and you're a business owner, like this is two people that have been there and done it. So we're telling you things that I can assure you if it's happening, you you y you need to have somebody come help you.
Marc Rust
Mm-hmm.
Marc Rust
Yeah.
Chad Paris
But they look at they look at they were like, hey, we're having these ads and people, you know, we're spending money on them and they're going to the ad and they're clicking off of them. Like we can, you know, because you look, you can tell how long people sit on their ad or your website. Though there's technology that does that. So just so you know, I know it sounds creepy, but it's it's reality. But they're saying, hey, people are going, they're they're clicking, they're, you know, they're we're catching them and then they're clicking off of it and going away. It's like, yeah. So you and about another thousand businesses are doing the same exact things because you're missing. You're you got a great hook. They get on, but you deliver nothing. You see it all the time, Marc, right? I mean, you can tell story after story. That's that's the truth. That they don't know how. And it comes back to they don't understand, or they they're not correlating who they really are. They're creating great taglines and you set it, but they're not catching who they are. And so people are not dumb. They can tell authenticity, they can say
Marc Rust
Yeah.
Marc Rust
Yeah, yeah.
Chad Paris
Well that's not what you do. That's not even true. Like that's not that the message is wrong.
Marc Rust
Yeah. So the there's one thing I wanted to kind of share with you, and I just thought about this while you were talking, is there's something I've talked about before called the hierarchy of value, right? Everybody in all situations, any negotiation, any transaction, you're looking for value, right? for example, if you're buying a Honda Accord or you're buying a Lamborghini, the buyer is looking for value. And value means that the amount of money that I've given you for my labor for this Lamborghini is worth what I'm getting out of it. Okay. Same thing for a Honda Accord. So it's it's not crazy like, my gosh, how could you spend that much money for a car? People can spend that much money for a car because they are getting that much value out of it. That's how what it feels like to them, right? This people are obsessed with, you know, motors, sound, everything, look, feel, blah, blah, blah.
Chad Paris
Sure. Yeah.
Marc Rust
But if you think of the hierarchy of value, to me it's somewhat of of a pyramid, right? And and at the base of that pyramid, you could have function. So if you have two products, you're gonna you're gonna evaluate them on function. This one does does something that this one doesn't, right? So you have an automatic screwdriver that also and you have two screwdrivers that are both automatic with a motor. One of them has a flashlight integrated into it. So you can see the screw as as you're screwing it in.
Chad Paris
That's right.
Marc Rust
Okay, this is a better product, right? the next level is like culture. Like, you know, is it doing something are other people like me doing it? It does it fit my needs, my cultural needs, right? can I engage with more more people because of it? Right? The way people choose the type of hotels they go to and stuff like that, right? Above that, I would say is style. Look and feel is extremely important. This one looks better than this one. I buy this shirt because I like polka dots versus this one. same thing with cars, et cetera. And then the last one is almost like the value of newness now, the value of now. What's the difference between the iPhone 17 and the iPhone 16? Yeah, the 17's newer. That's the only real difference. You can't tell me that it's because of the camera that you're buying it. It's just newer, feels better.
Chad Paris
yeah. Yeah. Sure.
Chad Paris
Yeah, yeah.
Marc Rust
I mean like a and and some companies have banked on that stuff. Like, I don't know if I don't know if you remember Chad when when they came out with like what is it, Gillette that came out with a a razor blade that had like s five or six blades at one point.
Chad Paris
Yes.
Chad Paris
Yeah, I think they had one like a six blade or something like that. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Marc Rust
Yeah, that's the power of now. There's no difference, but they but you know what people would say, my gosh, this is ridiculous. But it's not because they made hundreds of million dollars just on adding one more blade to something that didn't need it.
Chad Paris
They add another blade.
Chad Paris
Absolutely. And and I think, you know, one thing I mean, you nailed it. Like that's exactly true. I I one little caveat that I'll add, and I see this a lot, is when probably more so with with companies that are, you know, they make a product, right? And and everybody who has a product thinks that their product is the best product ever. Like you should. Especially if you're an engineer and made it. Like
Marc Rust
Mm-hmm. As they should, right?
Chad Paris
Yeah, I mean it's it's my baby. I made it. It's mine, right? I get all that. What I see though is, and this happens a lot, is, you know, we talk about branding and we talk about the packaging and we talk about all that. One of the things that gets missed is you have to, you know, just like I'll take the iPhone, I take the iPhone, you know, 17 for an example, use this as an illustration. Is that that phone is has a a low cost, a high cost, and it and it has a who you're selling it to.
Marc Rust
Mm-hmm.
Chad Paris
And you have to stay within that parameter of that cost. So what I mean by that is, is when I when Apple thinks about launching the new iPhone 17, they already know what the max that they can push that cost to that's going to be apple for the clients that they're selling to. There are people, and there are companies, I see this a lot, that push beyond what the window is that can be afforded. Does that make sense?
Marc Rust
Yeah.
Chad Paris
And so you you can overprice your product for the niche that you're trying to capture. Same thing with a Lamborghini. They're not selling a Lamborghini to somebody who makes $50,000 a year. That's not the target audience. The target audience is people who can afford a $250,000, $300,000 car. That's who they sell it to. That's why you don't see a Lamborghini commercial on TV every day. And so I think for business owners, sometimes is they they they got a great product and they see it, but they forget where they're Where where is the spot in where do we sit at in the price that we can push it to and still sell it without killing it, basically?
Marc Rust
Yeah, well, to me, that's where branding comes in. That's where, you know, the depth that we were talking about earlier comes in, where, you know, you can buy ice cream, vanilla ice cream, for five dollars for a pint, but there's some out there that are gonna be twelve dollars a pint. Why are you buying the twelve dollar pint one? Well,
Chad Paris
Absolutely.
Marc Rust
Because it's made with organic milk. It's got a picture of the person that makes the ice cream on the side of it. It's got a story of his company and his family. And it says that it's churned by hand. And it says, you know, naturally sourced ingredients. And it's it might even say made with love on it. Okay. It's romancing you by telling you, giving you All these other reasons to believe. And those reasons might be so are so strong that yeah, you're paying twelve dollars for it. You're getting more value out of it than the five dollar one. It's not generic. You talk about it, you tell your friends about it, and you know what, Chad? It tastes better. And and I don't I you know, I think that in in one of our pre-calls, maybe we talked about this where I was reading this book by by this this author, Rory Sutherland, who talked about a a a coffee shop in his neighborhood that went out of business. And, you know, another coffee shop came in a few weeks later and that coffee shop went out of business within a few months. And then he saw somebody move back in and they were working on it, and he was like, my gosh, I hope it's not another coffee shop.
Chad Paris
Yeah.
Marc Rust
And it was. But this time they put benches out front and they put a little gate around the benches. And there was a line up down the block for them. And they were always busy. And he's he's saying, You mean to tell me that benches make coffee taste better? And the answer is yes, benches do make tip coffee taste better. Because that's how we work as humans. There's things that just make us embrace products.
Chad Paris
yeah, I mean, y y you you're right. I mean, it's it's p when people you need to think about that. I mean, just kind of break that down for just a second for for people who are maybe listening to this. You know, why why why do the benches make a difference? Because when people think about coffee and they think about that, they think about there's nothing better for us to grab a cup of coffee and sit on the porch or look at the skyline.
Marc Rust
Mm-hmm.
Chad Paris
Take a moment. That's that is a time of the day where most people, even if you're going busy to work, right? Let's say you're in New York City and you grab a cup of coffee before you go. Okay, well, you're gonna ride the subway, but you're gonna drink that coffee. Typically, when people drink their coffee, they're having conversations with people. They're they're they're having that's a time for themselves. So you you understand what it's not about the coffee, it's about Catching the moment and what people enjoy doing with that. And that's what you're saying here is that you have to you have to dig into that when you're branding a product or thinking about a product or business problem or a business solution is what is it that you're fixing? What what it what is it that you have that's going to relate to the people that are buying it? Same thing. I don't care, I don't
Marc Rust
Exactly. And and and that's that that's what entrepreneurs and business owners need to be thinking about. And I it doesn't have to be coffee or service or whatever. It can be engineering components that you build for another company. But you have to ask yourself, what why do people come to us? Is it for the component we're building? Okay. But beyond that, why do they come to us? And if you can't answer that.
Chad Paris
That's right.
Marc Rust
And say, hey, we provide great customer service. We go above and beyond. We have values. We believe in certain things. You know, then you're missing the mark. If you're not doing that, you're missing the mark. Cause you could have people choose you for so many different reasons than just the product. Same thing for that ice cream, right?
Chad Paris
Yeah.
Chad Paris
Absolutely. And and it's and it's I I know a lot of people are probably sitting here going, Well, well we we we know you know we do that. We have I hear this, right? Especially like in the manufacturers out there. Well we have great customer service. Well so do we. Like but they're missing the point. It's not it's not it's not the customer you can't say I have great customer service and then all your reviews say I can't get anybody to call me back. Like you can't stand on that ground. You can't say that's what we do well because I
Marc Rust
Mm-hmm.
Marc Rust
No, you can't say that. Because 'cause that's a given, by the way.
Chad Paris
Yeah, exactly. You know, everybody's gonna have cr everybody's gonna have customer service, right? They're all gonna say that, even whether they do or not, they're gonna have to say great customer service. But very often they don't know what is customer service. Like how long does it take you to get an email back to somebody? But I think what what we're saying here is is it it's you gotta go another step. You gotta go even deeper in in what it is that you have that makes you unique and makes you make you know that that you're that that you're having this go to the audience that that you're trying to sell it to and and connecting with them. And and that's when that's when the real magic happens, right? I mean, let's talk about the let's talk about the drone company. I think this is a beautiful story. And and and I'll let you tell the story, but I I think this is a great example for people that are out there listening that are business owners or or they're pay back companies looking to buy companies and you know The first thing all of them all P back company all anybody who buys somebody wants to do is is where where can we where can we trim things back and turn to a better margin? There's just some things you can't trim. This is a great story of what I'll let you share a little bit about.
Marc Rust
Mm-hmm.
Marc Rust
well yeah, so so this was about a year back we we had a project where we were working with a portfolio company that that happened to be a a drone software company. And during that acquisition there was also a merger with an AI drone software company. So so they they had the fantastic software that was being added, you know, amplified with AI capability, which would was really a game changer for for for for the industry. And of course, everybody listening knows that drones is is the future of warfare and and and and that's changing things. there was, you know, often in situations you might you might run into really a need to adjust things and and have that internal alignment so your company can grow on the same path. And that's what I feel find a lot of lot a lot of companies lack over time is the internal online. When you when and and you know when you grow, it's a small team. At at first, you're the entrepreneur, you have people that use hand select that care as much as you, and you can help them, you can, you know, nurture them to care as much as you over time and reward them for that. However, there comes a point when your company becomes so big. that you people no lon can no longer come to you for that training and they rely on, you know, maybe training manuals or what have you, or what other people are telling them, or other people training them and telling them how to t do things. And it grows and grows and could get out of hand without that alignment, that constant nurture and alignment. And that's something that we do. And and in this particular situation with this drone company, there was somewhat of a dis well There was such it it wasn't there wasn't great alignment as far as what they stood for and what their future goals were. A lot of the people within the company felt were extremely passionate about what they did. passion wasn't missing. they cared about the software they were doing, and they wanted it to be exceptional, which it was. but they felt that
Marc Rust
They were in the business of having software that could follow things, that could do heat mapping, that could help find somebody lost at sea, help a an in agriculture, help, you know, survey land, et cetera, crops, and and and and get intelligence like that. well, come to find out, 80% of their sales, more than 80% of their sales was to the
Chad Paris
Yeah.
Marc Rust
for for defense. And these people, a lot of the people within the company did not adhere to that and did not want to be known as defense contractor people. they were a they were against war and they just felt very uncomfortable with it. So what do you do?
Chad Paris
Yeah.
Marc Rust
we ran work we ran workshops, we we met them, we interviewed them, and we tried to understand the story. And lo and behold, the story was that because of their software, because of their intelligence, there were less boots on the ground. War was becoming far more tactical, where you don't we no longer send troops out into war, young, young men and women, 17, 18 years old.
Chad Paris
Yeah.
Chad Paris
Yep.
Marc Rust
To be killed anymore. We send drones in, and we do this tactical warfare that really is trying to have the least amount of human lives touched as possible. So it's a real great thing. And so when you start saying that, it changes the whole story. Now these people that were very anti-war are still anti-war, but they're approaching it from a totally different angle.
Chad Paris
Yeah.
Marc Rust
And it celebrates the company. It provides that alignment and a far better communication as to what they're doing, why they're doing it, and what their real purpose is. And it allows them to have all those reasons to believe. And that is priceless.
Chad Paris
And so y you know why I love I love this story. And 'cause there's man, there's a lot to unpack here that that really is in this story. example. This is a real example. This is not a made up. This is a real deal. And and I think that, you know, what I find as a as a consultant as well and and looking at companies and I and I and I say this all the time. And I think it's one of the and I get it. Like I understand why. So when I say this, it's not like I don't understand why. For a business owner that has built something and has a lot of blood, sweat, tears, a lot of equity into this field.
Marc Rust
Yeah, absolutely.
Chad Paris
And they build that. And they've it's it's very passionate to them. And then they have people that's inside the company that were very early on that were very passionate about it and and and really what it stood for, right? And then you you sell the company or someone acquires the company or you're getting ready to sell the company. There's a change. Let's just say there's a change of guard, right? And they come in and you do your very best to try to articulate your vision and who you are, but sometimes it changes and it looks different.
Marc Rust
Yeah.
Chad Paris
Very, very, very I I would say one of the biggest things that I see, and I and I'm and I'm at this more of a question. It's fearful for a business owner or someone who built that to have somebody to come in to look under the hood. Because the first thing it signals in their brain is I failed. And I s and I wrote a s I wrote an article about this. That's not true. That's not you failed or you didn't do something right. I've heard I've heard business I've I've got business owners I've worked with, I've heard them say.
Marc Rust
Yeah.
Chad Paris
Well, I mean, I guess I did a terrible job. No, that's that's that's not what bringing Marc or Chad in is to do, is to say, you did a terrible job. That's not the that's not the purpose behind why you engage with someone like us. You engage with someone like us is because we've been there and done that and we've seen things and we're there to to give solutions. If our whole purpose in existing is to walk into a company to hear the problems, and it's not gonna be
Marc Rust
Mm-hmm.
Chad Paris
You're not going to hear the problems just from the owner. He's going to tell you his version. You got to really dig the weeps and get in there with all the people that's involved and invested and understand, just like you uncovered here, this is a prime example where great product, but the people who were were were talking about it or wanting to talk about it were hung up on it in war. And so once you uncover that and you start the messaging and get the change of the belief system,
Marc Rust
Yeah.
Chad Paris
skyrockets in sales. That's real world things that happen every single day.
Marc Rust
Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. And you you're you're you're changing the narrative to be more effective, right? No longer being about potentially being part of a machine that's killing people, but now being part of a solution that is allowing leaders and leadership to make far more tactical decisions at the at the right time by communicating to each other effectively.
Chad Paris
That's right.
Marc Rust
That's what it's doing. That is totally different, you know, and and you know, the the reasons to believe are are there. But I want to react to one thing you said, you know, business leaders and founders are quite ineffective at understanding the secret powers that marketing and good branding can bring. And that's why, you know, you might.
Chad Paris
Yeah.
Marc Rust
Make the best ice cream in the world, but if you don't market it, it's worth nothing. And and the problem is that you might still have some ice cream people out there who have a little little stand and they're disgruntled because their sales are down, even though they're making the best ice cream in the world. And they're like, I don't understand it. And somebody comes up to them and says, Well, why don't you take a marketing class? Or why don't you hire a marketing company? no, no, no, I'm not gonna do that. What do you think? I'm a sellout? Okay. Well, then your life is not gonna change.
Chad Paris
Yeah, cost too much, right? Yeah. Yeah. It so what do they do? And this is this is this is what they do, right? Well I I you know, I I've done some marketing in the past and we'll we'll buy some meta ads and I'll run that and we we'll we'll we'll we'll craft messages and and then they get zero hits because they don't they're not they're they're they're not that's not what they're good at. That's not what they do. That's why 'cause I hear I
Marc Rust
Yeah, exactly.
Marc Rust
And that's fine by the way. It's fine that they're not good at it. Hire somebody be that's good at it.
Chad Paris
Yeah, I hear this all the Yeah. Well well exactly. And I hear this all the time, especially with with you know, with with with PE companies or any company. Well, you you want a hundred thousand dollars a month to put into marketing. Well, what's that gonna bring us back in dollars? 'Cause that's the brain they think in, right? They don't think about it like like literally think it's transactional. I put it in today and then I return tomorrow. Like that's not how marketing works. That's not even close. It yeah, it's like and and then then they're all like you said, I think you said they're beating their heads saying, Well, why we you know we got this great product, but it's not going off nobody's buying it or we're not selling a lot of it. There's a reason, right? There's a reason. 'Cause you're 'cause you're not you're not Yeah.
Marc Rust
It's not how humans work.
Marc Rust
Yeah. And it's hard to find that reason. That's the thing. I mean, w w w one story of that came to mind as you were talking, Chad, is like I read this whole thing about how between in England right now, between London and Birmingham, they're redoing the rail train. Okay. It's a six hundred million pound project. And it's to make the train go faster. The train will go twenty minutes faster. Okay, and this is a train that leaves every every hour.
Marc Rust
Nobody stopped and said, Well, wait, what's the problem here? The problem is that people don't like waiting for trains. That's the problem. So, how do you alleviate that problem? There's many ways. You could, for 600 million pounds, you could speed up the train, change the tracks, everything to have faster trains. Or maybe you could alleviate the feeling of waiting for a train. Right? Going back to work, put a bar on the train. Honestly, put a bar on the train. People will won't mind waiting around, right? have your stewards look nicer, dress nicer. Okay. that will make an impact. Play some music. Or better yet, why what how about an app that will allow you to forfeit your ticket if you're gonna miss the train or buy somebody else's ticket at a premium price, by the way.
Chad Paris
Yeah. Put a coffee shop with some chairs up front. Yeah.
Chad Paris
Maybe play maybe play some music.
Marc Rust
If you if you think you can take an earlier train. Now all of a sudden people are waiting for trains far less because of that, rather than doing a huge infrastructure project. And I'm not saying that the infrastructure project is bad, but I'm saying there's still an opportunity for people to bring in marketers to look at the problem, which is I don't like waiting for trains.
Chad Paris
Yeah. Why do you why do you think that and and I think you make a great point. You know, wha why do you why do you think people are so quick to have a solution without understanding the real problem? Why why do you why do you is that because it's an easy button?
Marc Rust
Yeah.
Marc Rust
No, I think it's because people for some reason equate creativity with risk. And and and you know, they're afraid. It's i there it's fear, fear of risk. And and I don't think that creativity is risk. That's the thing.
Chad Paris
No, I I I mean I think I think you I mean listen, in in reality is is we're we're we're in an age and time today you know totally different than it was ten years ago, fifteen years ago, twenty years ago. The the amount of information is that it's a fingertip for people is so I mean peop people are people research more now before they buy things than they ever have in our world. Like they just do. They just research it, right? So, you know, going back to there's there's two things that that in my opinion that that that kind of causes this, right? One is is that entrepreneurs say or business owners say, we wanna have the the the first one that people look at when when we have this product. They think, you mean I hear this all the time, like we gotta be at the top. We gotta be at top, we wanna be, we wanna be the one, we wanna be the one they look at. And and And I understand that logic, but they're missing the other part of that that happens is that let's say someone clicks on it. Say you're number one on Google, you click on it. Okay. Well, what did you achieve being number one? But what happened when they clicked on it? That's the part that they miss. That's the part that they're like, does the messaging in there because because because when people go, you know, like example, you say, hey, I'm the I'm the best ice cream in the world.
Marc Rust
Mm-hmm. Is that relevant?
Chad Paris
We we make like all the things. We make you know, we make it more organic, da da da, and you put that message out there and you're you're number one. So when people go, best ice cream, you land at the top. Okay, you've you've done that part. But when they go into it and they start looking at it and going, Well, this is still just ice cream, because there's no messaging about how it's made, why it's made, where it comes from, why it tastes better, all those things. It's not telling the story.
Marc Rust
That's the story. Yeah.
Chad Paris
You just captured a bunch of clicks to open it up, but you didn't finish the loop.
Marc Rust
Yeah, absolutely. And that's a hard thing to do. That's a hard thing to do. And sales, closing the loop is the well, not just sales, in life, it's the hardest thing to do, you know. You know, getting getting the going from date to to actual dating. you know, closing closing the loop. you know, being a writing a book versus finishing a book. I mean, those are the hardest things is closing.
Chad Paris
Yeah, it's
Chad Paris
Sure it is. Sure it is.
Marc Rust
You know, everybody's writing a book, okay? How many people are finished and published? Very few.
Chad Paris
Yeah, I and I think it you know, it it it's you know, there's so much noise. There's so much stuff out there. You know, I I as you were talking and as we've been kind of going through this, you know, I I I look at it and start internalizing my own self and my own company of of you know what's the most important thing. Because you can get very and and I live this and I'm sure you do too. but I you can There there's so much noise and so many people that are gonna tell you, well, you should do this, or you should do that, or you should do this, or you should do that, or you need this AI tool to do this, or you need you know, this AI tool will help you. You know, we we see it all the time. I mean, you don't have to get on social media like, you know, this one will make your content, you know, it'll cut your videos down and put it on Facebook, and the next thing you know, you're gonna get eight million people buying your product. Like that's the story that they tell, right? And what they forget is is that the reason you're seeing them is
Marc Rust
Mm-hmm.
Chad Paris
They got really good marketing people that are pushing what they're pushing what they're pushing that message and you're clicking on it and going, well, yeah, sure, I'll buy it, right? And then you're buying a solution that is built off a better marketing tactic or a better messaging than your own company is. And you're you're what I call layer and dump. You're layering more product on top of what you're trying to fix instead of fixing the dump.
Marc Rust
Yeah. Well that's yeah, yeah.
Marc Rust
Yeah.
Marc Rust
Yeah.
Chad Paris
And and that's the problem. you you've gotta go back. I think Marc, you've said it. I agree with it. You've gotta stop and you gotta have someone. If you can't do it, if you physically can't do it, and it's and that's okay. That's kind of why we exist is to have people and and I'm not trying to pitch us, I'm saying any kind if it ain't us, there's other people. But you gotta have somebody willing to come in and to to to
Marc Rust
Yeah, absolutely.
Chad Paris
to talk through it and not only that, but really if if you if you engage with somebody and they're not asking questions from the people that work there and and really spending a good couple of weeks digging into the problems and trying to understand it before they bring you a solution, you need to walk away. Is that fair?
Marc Rust
Yeah, yeah. I mean, although it's it's difficult to walk away, but yeah. You know, the the you know, people always have an ego and they they they feel that that that they're o they're owning something and and they put the the sweat and tears into something and they should see it through. You know, that that that's difficult. You you you need to be humble and and kind of allow allow for new ideas to come in and and celebrate how remarkable.
Chad Paris
Yeah. I mean
Marc Rust
Of a story you can create. You know, there's always something and some out there that is better, right? the the the there's a quote that I love from from this is one of my favorite quotes is from this furniture designer from the 1960s, this guy named Harry Bertoya. He said, The urge for good design is the same as the urge to go on living.
Chad Paris
Hundred percent.
Chad Paris
Hmm. I like that.
Marc Rust
Because somehow, somehow, there's a better way of doing things. I love that because I love taking good design and replace it with whatever you want. The urge for a better mechanic is the same as the urge to go on living, right? So have people who really strive to and have that urge to find a better way, constantly going deeper, finding those reasons to believe.
Chad Paris
Okay. it
Chad Paris
I I I I love that. I think it's great. that's so true. And so so as we we're we got about I don't know five or six more minutes. I got we're gonna do what I call the quick fire round. Okay. I wanna I got I got five questions. I'll throw at you. you throw one and you just answer. first thing comes to mind. It's kind of the quick fire round. We'll we'll end with that and and then we'll close that. Okay. So here we go. First one.
Marc Rust
all right.
Marc Rust
Okay.
Chad Paris
one belief about private equity or branding that you used to hold on to but don't anymore and what was it?
Marc Rust
I know I'm not cooking quick enough for your quick fire around here.
Chad Paris
No, you're fine.
Marc Rust
well that it was easy. That it was easy. That you know, that that just because that you would create a brand and people would notice it right off the bat.
Chad Paris
it'd be it'd be like nothing else you need to do. It's done, right? Like yeah, it's like like
Marc Rust
Yeah, yeah. That's day one. You need to you need to have people attract. you need to do everything. You need to f put the fireworks on.
Chad Paris
'Cause it's like, well, what else are you doing? Like, come on, man, that's e exactly. All right. most expensive mistake you made that you'd happily make again.
Marc Rust
Gosh.
Marc Rust
Well, most expensive mistake, Chad. I'm not ready for this.
Chad Paris
I know, I know. It's it's it's it's the fun, it's but just fine. There is no wrong answer by the way, so
Marc Rust
I guess the most expensive mistake was to and I'll do I would I would do it again because it it made me grow, is with my first company. I went and started an LLC. I hired one of my favorite logos logo designers out there to create a logo for me. I had him do it pro bono. I never could go back to him again after that and ask him for anything. and I had business cards made. I didn't have a product. I didn't have a client. And I was apreneur. Wantrapreneur. I was not an entrepreneur, right? I was playing it. How many times? And I'm sure a lot of people have done this out of college. You know, you have your business card and it says, you know, what you do, but you have no clients. That that is a waste of money, a waste of time, a waste of everything, you know, because you don't need to do that.
Chad Paris
Yeah, I like that. Like yeah.
Marc Rust
What you need to do is you need to find your first client and then get another client and then start your LLC.
Chad Paris
Yeah. Good advice. That's great advice. Okay, number three, this a little easier. A tool out or ritual you could you couldn't run your business without.
Marc Rust
Yeah.
Marc Rust
Well, I found a new tool a few weeks ago that I just love. And it's a dictation tool. I where you just press one button, you press a function key and it turns it on, and you dictate, and you press another one, and it turns it off, and it spits it out and it fixes your mistakes. It's called typeless, and it's fantastic. And there's many tools like that out there. but I don't type anymore, and it's for everything.
Chad Paris
The No.
Marc Rust
And even if you say a sentence like, it was great to meet with you today, Chad, and I really liked no, I mean I wanted to tell you that we should meet again. That and I mean, we should have meet again, it would fix all that and say, It's great talking to you today, we should meet again. It it has some intelligence in it. It's great.
Chad Paris
And you can just talk it out. And you can just talk it out and it does that. Yeah. Isn't that awesome? Like and and think about that a minute. And I and that's why I always love that question, because this is this is where where I think the advantage of having someone like you or me that can help is we we we use these tools before we just say you should use this. Like, you know, and for a for a business.
Marc Rust
Talk it out. Yeah. Yeah, that's the best.
Marc Rust
yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean if you're listening to this and you don't have it, in the next five minutes, download something like that.
Chad Paris
That's right. That's exactly right. So all right. The thing you wish more clients understood up front before they ever hire you.
Marc Rust
Yeah.
Marc Rust
That they should sit back, relax, and enjoy the ride. It's gonna be a great, great ride. They're gonna have a fantastic time.
Chad Paris
I love that. I and I and I I think, you know, people that I you know, I would add to that is is I w I wish people would would be and I get it, I wish they would be less fearful about having somebody come in and look at it as a as a partner that's helping you. And and they need to evaluate They need to know are they going to hold them accountable and give them the hard answers. 'Cause if they're not, you don't really need Like we need people around us.
Marc Rust
Mm-hmm.
Marc Rust
Yeah.
Chad Paris
that are going to challenge us. That's what makes us better. That's what makes us better. So last one, my title's Process Over Pressure. What does that what does the word process over pressure mean to you?
Marc Rust
Exactly. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
Chad Paris
Be whatever, I don't care. Smite background.
Marc Rust
It means have a roadmap instead of just jumping in and trying to juggle everything at the same time. That's pressure, right? But if you have a roadmap that tells you how to get there, what the next steps should be, you can follow that with confidence.
Chad Paris
That's definitely correct.
Chad Paris
Love it. Marc, this has absolutely been a blast. I cannot believe it's been forty-five minutes. It feels like it's been ten. so so as people are are you know, we're finishing up here. If they're if they're out there and they're listening, they're like, Man, you guys, you two crazy guys have have hit on something. How could they reach you, Marc? How could they get in touch with you? I know y'all don't know this, but he's in Paris today. So but I know that. You just don't know that. But how would they re Yeah, I'm always in Paris. How would they reach you?
Marc Rust
Yeah, you're great.
Marc Rust
Yeah, I'm not always in Paris. But no, back home. well, our website is consequently creative.com. You can also just Google my name, M-A-R-C, last name R-U-S-T, and I show up. Or you can follow me on Instagram, follow our company on Instagram. We're there too. And, you know, we there's just about a link everywhere to book a 15-minute call where we can talk about your alignment and what you should do. and and you'll see the rewards.
Chad Paris
That's awesome. Yeah. I I'll tell you guys, you know, to and I encourage anyone out there, like if if you're if you're in the middle of this, like try to, you know, maybe maybe just look Marc and I are a lot alike in the fact that when you book that call doesn't mean that we're gonna start charging you to book that call. We're we're we're not we're not already like the cocks on you. Like we we don't know that we can help you unless we talk to you. So so it's it's literally no
Marc Rust
Yeah.
Chad Paris
No worry you at all. I mean, you're booking the call to to say, hey Marc, hey Chad, here's what's going on. And and our job is to listen. I mean, that's what we do. And and to listen is is not, you know, if if people are charging you to have a 15 minute call, run. Like the purpose Yeah, the purpose is is that, and I can sh I can I can tell you this, we have clients. We don't need to keep adding clients.
Marc Rust
absolutely.
Chad Paris
But what we will do is is we'll tell you, yes, this is something in my wheelhouse or this is not, and and make sure that that we can be aligned in helping you. Otherwise, there's there's no sense in engaging with us. And that's that that's what the call's for. So just relax, make the call, tell them what's going on, and just see if there's something that can help. Marc, great. He can align your marketing and man, there's so much more. So as always, Marc, thank you for being on the show. This is Chad Paris, process over pressure. you can reach me at Stonefly Consulting Group. Love to talk with you just like Marc. Plenty of places to go and book a discovery call. And I encourage you to do that if you're out there. It just resonates to say, hey guys, what can I what can I do here? I need some help. And and that's okay. We we we're not we're confidential. We won't talk about you on a podcast, but we will we will give you some real answers and give you an opportunity to to give you some solutions. We're solution oriented. So again, thank you always. It's been awesome. Talk to you next time.
Marc Rust
Thanks, Chad.
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